Tactical analysis?

[Joe!]

A 1-0 defeat at Norwich is not the slightest bit embarrassing or surprising, but the tactics deployed by Pochettino today were a bit surprising and left me slightly stumped. I thought the level-headed posters among us could attempt to break down the game plan today, and discuss how it might work in the future, whether some players don't quite fit in, whether it'd work better with our best full-backs fit, etc.

What's Pochettino's thought process when putting his starting eleven together? Was that pretty much a 4-4-2 today? What was he trying to change with the substitutions? Did Norwich just counter it very effectively, or did Pochettino make some mistakes? Can Lambert and Osvaldo play together?

I can normally come up with my own answers to those questions, but I'm struggling today so let's see if anyone's got some good insights.

Anyone who just wants to vent their frustration can do so somewhere else. Be constructive or sod off.

 

[Le Tissier's Laces]

I honestly think (and have thought for a wee bit) that Rickie should be on the bench and J-Rod start alongside Osvaldo. Without a natural winger, we need to see pace up front and Rickie hasn't had any form to speak of (bar the England game) for quite a few games now......Osvaldo and J-Rod feels a more natural, and likely more effective, fit to me.

I know that sounds like sacrilege, but there we go......

 

[Dan]

I honestly think (and have thought for a wee bit) that Rickie should be on the bench and J-Rod start alongside Osvaldo. Without a natural winger, we need to see pace up front and Rickie hasn't had any form to speak of (bar the England game) for quite a few games now......Osvaldo and J-Rod feels a more natural, and likely more effective, fit to me.

I know that sounds like sacrilege, but there we go......

Sacrilege it may be, but I agree with you. He's not played well for Southampton consistently for a long time now. He was disappointing for the last nine or ten games of last season, and he's been very poor these last three.

A lack of width is really killing us. JWP is good but offers no width, and Lallana/Ramirez/Rodriguez/whoever shows up on the other side doesn't offer anything in the way of width either (though all are good players). We play very narrow, and don't have anyone incisive enough to cut apart compact midfields. Lallana and Ramirez probably could, but aren't. I really think we need a proper winger over the next couple of days.

As for today's substitutions, I have no idea. I normally have absolutely no problem with his changes, but I really can't understand his reasoning today.

 

[rabbitspectrum]

Thought in the first half, after the initial settling in period it was:

--------JWP----Wanyama-------
-----------------Schneiderlin
-------------Lallana------------
------Osvaldo---Lambert------

With JWP looking to play in chambers and cross from deep. Schneiderlin mainly worked the left, trying to make up for fox, sometimes forming a defensive 3, but mainly looking to offer an attacking option. Lambert and Osvaldo were working similar areas with osvaldo dropping deeper and wider in the first half.

Lallana and jwp benifted most from this and played best everyone else was comprimised to some extent perhaps not wanyama who probably just had an off game, and played worse. It seemed to follow this pattern until the substitutions when we looked even more disjointed.

Edit: Apart from the lack of width another consequence of no attacking fullbacks was we couldn't push their wingers back enough and that's what cost us the goal. When we are at full flow we are able to cover the widemen better as they have to attack from much deeper and either wanyama or schneiderlin can better tack them.

 

[Le Tissier's Laces]

I think what MP was trying today, as you say Rabbit, was a free roaming AM trying to unlock the defences centrally for Rickie/Osvaldo, as we have no natural width. That's why Gaston came on for him, as it was just to try someone else in that role who might, just might, have been able to do that. As has been mentioned Adam was unlucky today (that's also, in my opinion, his best position).

It didn't quite work, and as I've mentioned above, unless you have the pace up front to run in behind defenders, it's unlikely to do so (unless of course your AM is Matt Le Tissier who will just score the goals for you). So we either get width in, or we sacrifice Rickie I'm afraid.

 

[The Based God]

Pochettino out.

 

[Schad]

Lallana started nominally wide before moving into the 10, with Osvaldo playing between the fullback and CB, and JWP occupying (sometimes) the wing early, though later in the game he ended up in a more deep-lying role with Schneiderlin pushed forward in a central position.

rabbitspectrum largely gets it right, I think. This didn't seem to be the ambiguity of some of our normal tactics, where players swap places in a shifting 4-2-3-1...this manifested itself as something rather different, almost like the extremely narrow 4-1-2-1-2 that is the bane of FM players everywhere.

We're also not pressing with the same intensity that we did last year; hasn't mattered in the first two games because the opposition never had the ball, but against Norwich we gave them an unusual amount of space. Part of that might be Schneiderlin's lack of fitness, but we didn't ask many questions of them in their own half; everything had to be built from our own end, and without any width and with Norwich's midfield, that meant that things ground to a halt with unnerving frequency.

 

[saintlyhero]

I don't think Pochettino knows the answers yet which may well explain some of the substitutions.
I think we've bought well and individually the players have done well, but now he is trying to find the best combinations.

Keeping our best players and strengthening the spine means we have three new crucial partnerships in Lovren/Fonte, Wanyama/Schneiderlin and Osvaldo/Lambert.

You'd give a tick to the defenders this far. It seems Morgan has been effected with a fitness issue but I thought they were both very good at WBA.

1st game for the front two and it will take a while for them to get to know each others game. When Rodriguez came on he was almost put through by Lambert.

 

[rabbitspectrum]

I think what MP was trying today, as you say Rabbit, was a free roaming AM trying to unlock the defences centrally for Rickie/Osvaldo, as we have no natural width. That's why Gaston came on for him, as it was just to try someone else in that role who might, just might, have been able to do that. As has been mentioned Adam was unlucky today (that's also, in my opinion, his best position).

It didn't quite work, and as I've mentioned above, unless you have the pace up front to run in behind defenders, it's unlikely to do so (unless of course your AM is Matt Le Tissier who will just score the goals for you). So we either get width in, or we sacrifice Rickie I'm afraid.

I would be very reluctant to drop rickie as he scored most of our goals and created most of our chances last season. He would benefit from more width but an out of form rickie will pick a brilliant pass twice in two matches he has played rodriguez through on goal and if not for a bad touch today and .5 metres the other day we would probably have another 5 points. If he is going to fit into pochettino's system alongside gaston and osvaldo, the formation we played today with rickie and osvaldo striking and gaston playing the cam is our best bet and with proper fullbacks i think it will look like a very dangerous and effective tactic.

The bonus of this will be that it also allows wanyama, schneiderlin and ward-prowse/cork to play in their best positions.
----------Wanyama
------Jwp-----schneiderlin
-------Gaston/Lallana
------Osvaldo----Lambert

Looks like a very good tactic and one that plays our players in their desired positions.

 

[TBD]

I think our problem is actually a bit more simple. At the moment pretty much our only method of attack is playing through the middle of the opposition. This requires excellent touch and passing and produces great moves when it comes off. However it's very difficult and if the oposistion makes life difficult for us we often strugle. Our problem for me is we don't have another option really. The long ball isn't really efective for us and we don't have many players who can really beat and get behind the full back (like Redmond). I think the solution is to cary on with the plan A but get a 'proper winger' in to give a plan B.

 

[Joe!]

It's very hard to say whether playing Rickie is the right choice or not. On the one hand, you've got the fact that he's gone a number of consecutive games being very quiet and seemingly lacking ideas. On the other hand, you've got the fact that he's the only one of our strikers who can drop deep and be a playmaker, and the fact that he can so often get us a goal from nothing.

 

[ChilcoSaint]

I only saw the last half hour today but from what I read we were better in the first half. I think MP is completely without options for wide players, especially without Clyne and Shaw. Chambers does get forward sometimes but not often, otherwise crosses from deep. I am getting worried about our inability to unpick defences and we are crying out for someone who can go round the full back on either side. Rodriguez can do it on the left but he isn't being used in that role. If we don't get a genuine winger in the last couple of days of the window we will have to go for the academy options. I don't know enough about who we have but Isgrove might be worth a shot.

 

[Joe!]

I think our problem is actually a bit more simple. At the moment pretty much our only method of attack is playing through the middle of the opposition. This requires excellent touch and passing and produces great moves when it comes off. However it's very difficult and if the oposistion makes life difficult for us we often strugle. Our problem for me is we don't have another option really. The long ball isn't really efective for us and we don't have many players who can really beat and get behind the full back (like Redmond). I think the solution is to cary on with the plan A but get a 'proper winger' in to give a plan B.

Well Clyne and Shaw can do that too. Would we have good penetration down the flanks with them fit and playing?

 

[Downthe36]

We suck without Clyne.

 

[Joe!]

I only saw the last half hour today but from what I read we were better in the first half. I think MP is completely without options for wide players, especially without Clyne and Shaw. Chambers does get forward sometimes but not often, otherwise crosses from deep. I am getting worried about our inability to unpick defences and we are crying out for someone who can go round the full back on either side. Rodriguez can do it on the left but he isn't being used in that role. If we don't get a genuine winger in the last couple of days of the window we will have to go for the academy options. I don't know enough about who we have but Isgrove might be worth a shot.

I've been tempted by Isgrove since pre-season. And Rowe since Barnsley.

 

[Don Cortese]

Sacrilege it may be, but I agree with you. He's not played well for Southampton consistently for a long time now. He was disappointing for the last nine or ten games of last season, and he's been very poor these last three.

A lack of width is really killing us. JWP is good but offers no width, and Lallana/Ramirez/Rodriguez/whoever shows up on the other side doesn't offer anything in the way of width either (though all are good players). We play very narrow, and don't have anyone incisive enough to cut apart compact midfields. Lallana and Ramirez probably could, but aren't. I really think we need a proper winger over the next couple of days.

As for today's substitutions, I have no idea. I normally have absolutely no problem with his changes, but I really can't understand his reasoning today.

Totally agree re the width thing; but I think if you put Shaw and Clyne back into the team that changes. The problem for me is that Chambers isnt ready to "bomb forwards" and Fox is, well, Fox.

 

[TBD]

Well Clyne and Shaw can do that too. Would we have good penetration down the flanks with them fit and playing?

Yep thats a good point which I overlooked. Still I guess the point is if there not fit we lack penetration down the flanks and so don't really have a plan B in that regard, considering Shaw is only young and has been fairly injury prone thus far it's probably worth addressing.

 

[Schad]

I think our problem is actually a bit more simple. At the moment pretty much our only method of attack is playing through the middle of the opposition. This requires excellent touch and passing and produces great moves when it comes off. However it's very difficult and if the oposistion makes life difficult for us we often strugle. Our problem for me is we don't have another option really. The long ball isn't really efective for us and we don't have many players who can really beat and get behind the full back (like Redmond). I think the solution is to cary on with the plan A but get a 'proper winger' in to give a plan B.

Agreed. We need 'early' width...having the fullbacks healthy makes a real difference when we have everyone in the opposition half, but we do need a winger who can attack early in a possession, pulling the opposition fullback wide and potentially opening up space for our strikers and whoever the CAM-of-the-day might be. When remaining wide Lallana does it reasonably well at times, especially when played on the right, but he has the tendency to go into a dance routine and allow defenders to flood back.

 

[rabbitspectrum]

Isgrove and rowe are some distance off being premier league standard. It's clear that pochettino doesn't play wingers but I agree we need an option in behind, shaw and clyne are perfect for this. Both very quick not great crosses but very quick and when you get to the byeline even a bad cross can lead to a goal.

 

[Wide Bill]

Gaston has to start.
Get him feeding Osvaldo and we might get somewhere

Cannot have a £12million player faffing about on the bench total waste get his confidence up and get him out there