They were all trying to play proper football, unfortunately, if CH bought Messi, you'd dismiss him as a useless player because all you ever do is find fault with anything CH does!
How long do we give him?
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Apologies - yes I skim-read the thread and didn't fully appreciate your comment
I still think the set-up was fine - we completely dominated the first 20. The problem was that the players let their heads go down. That is the issue. Hughton must address this - we seem too often to feel sorry for ourselves. I don't want another ten match terrible football streak again.
Oh and I know that it absolutely wasn't meant in that way, but you and Carrabuh really need to stop using that word to describe Hughton - could very easily construed differently and the world is getting trigger happy at online comments . Just wouldn't want the site, or you, to get in trouble unnecessarily
. Just wouldn't want the site, or you, to get in trouble unnecessarily
Doh! My contexts are getting muddled this thread, the chimp was literally a chimp at twycross, and it was more an analogy as to how many times some folks would keep revisiting the same (poor football) vomit before thinking hang on that's horrible wass occurin'.
Bah!
P.s. CH I would say may be slow with his subs, tactically limited (he may dispell that this season, we all live in hope) and a bit annoying in bugging up the opposition, but a chimp, no! I'm a little bit more enlightened than to say such tripe in the context your referring.
Because too many of them had an off day, I'd say it was pretty conclusive to anyone who watched it and understands the basic principles of football!
Sloppy performance by the players coupled with being poorly set up in the first place. They failed to keep possession and barely even hassled Hull when they had the ball, some near suicidal defending from three of the back four, our two defensive midfielders went on a leisurely jog in most of the game because they barely made any challenges.
Having an "off day", sounds like you really understand the basic principles of football Dave
Lets just look at the long game don't see us making any major steps forward this year why should we all the other teams have invested to we all "improve" and step forward but for heavens sake to start calling for CHs head now is ridiculous
I have to say, all this **** from people who only want to support a team when they're likely to win the league is making me wonder two things!
1) If they're so keen to watch only a team that keeps winning, they could become plastics and support Man Ure or similar!
2) Why am I bothering even to log on to be confronted by this constant negative rubbish? Even if we dropped to the conference, I would still support the lads without any complaints!
1) If they're so keen to watch only a team that keeps winning, they could become plastics and support Man Ure or similar!
2) Why am I bothering even to log on to be confronted by this constant negative rubbish? Even if we dropped to the conference, I would still support the lads without any complaints!
Because we have to continually progress and evolve as a team. Everyone wants what is best, just because some people will not tolerate any **** from the players that doesn't make them a lesser city fan then anyone else.
Early days I take that, but I don't understand those in "it's early days give the team some time" cAnnot accept that there are plenty of city fans who are concerned with aspects of our teams play and set up and similarities to last seasons slightly unpleasant play at times. It is simply not just being negative
We all want the best for the club, but concern needs to be accepted as a view too, otherwise what is the point posting on here, I for one will be off-ski
We all want the best for the club, but concern needs to be accepted as a view too, otherwise what is the point posting on here, I for one will be off-ski
I agree with you about voicing concern. Perfectly legitimate and I don't think it is necessarily "too soon". I bet Hughton doesn't think it's "too soon" to give the players a bollocking for not passing the ball (shocked to see our completion was 84% by the way, which is the highest I can remember in the Prem).
I think my point is that I see different problems this season to last. None of the same, actually. We created chances, we knocked the ball around at the back. The problems we had on Saturday were quite different:
1) heads going down when behind (not entirely new, but never really this bad and never from a position of dominance to utter crap like Saturday after 20 mins)
2) very poor performance from Martin, Whittaker and Garrido (ok, Garrido not new, but it sounds like Olsson is t fit enough to start yet)
3) completely ravaged by injuries (we have been lucky in the past I suppose, that it has never all come at once)
4) players out of position (wasn't a problem at first when we were playing well, but once heads went down it was obvious and it's difficult to see, given the limited options we had, how else to deal with this)
5) and inability to deal with a ten-man, weaker team, where we were given lots of time and needed to break down their defence (this is highly unusual - we have nearly always been the underdogs. I do remember the game against Villa where we struggled to break them down after they went a man down, but it is hardly as if we normally have this much time on the ball)
6) how do we test the goalkeeper more effectively (last season it was more about how do we even test the goal... I think perhaps it didn't help that MacGregor was on fine form)
7) what decisions are our players making in the final third and how could it be improved (linked to the previous point, but several players got into good positions and then made poor decisions - this is novel)
All of these are very different challenges to anything experienced by the players before. I want to see us deal with these new challenges better than we did with last season's challenges (of which many seem to have been dealt with by a very good transfer window).
With Bassong, Pilkington and Snodgrass fit (bear in mind the latter created the second highest number of clear cut chances in the Prem last season) we will have a very different look and feel. I'm still confident. Disappointed, and questioning how Hughton will deal with this, yes. But not worried yet.
Fine, but when so many people appear incapable of recognising "progress and evolution" when it is happening in front of their eyes, what is the point of continuing on here? And if you want an answer to carrabuh's question to dave about just how things are supposed to have changed, I suggest you look no further than the distinct shift in focus of carrabuh's own criticisms of our play between last season and this. The "tall lanky wingers" whose arrival carrabuh was so confidently predicting before the transfer window opened, have noticeably failed to materialise, and with their non-arrival has gone the myth he was propagating about how the ball was going to played forward fast and wide to wingers whose sole purpose was going to be to hurl long balls into the box onto poor RvW's head. And remember all that stuff about there being no lateral passing, only up and down along the touch-line followed by a big boot into the centre? Now apparently all we can do is play laterally across the massed defensive ranks in front of us, and what we lack is anyone capable of unlocking the defence by playing RvW in with a needle sharp through ball. The fact is, far from focussing on strengthening our wide play, we have strengthed in the centre with the acquisition of Hooper and Elmander, and behind them Fer. The one notional wide player we have acquired (apart from Olsson who serves the same purpose on the left as Whittaker on the right) is Redmond who in fact is not an out-and-out winger at all as even the most blind amongst us must surely have noticed. People are quick to criticise the manager for rigidity and lack of imagination, while being so rigid and lacking in imagination themselves that all they can "see" is a team not set up in a way that meets their own unimaginative expectations.
Fine, but when so many people appear incapable of recognising "progress and evolution" when it is happening in front of their eyes, what is the point of continuing on here? And if you want an answer to carrabuh's question to dave about just how things are supposed to have changed, I suggest you look no further than the distinct shift in focus of carrabuh's own criticisms of our play between last season and this. The "tall lanky wingers" whose arrival carrabuh was so confidently predicting before the transfer window opened, have noticeably failed to materialise, and with their non-arrival has gone the myth he was propagating about how the ball was going to played forward fast and wide to wingers whose sole purpose was going to be to hurl long balls into the box onto poor RvW's head. And remember all that stuff about there being no lateral passing, only up and down along the touch-line followed by a big boot into the centre? Now apparently all we can do is play laterally across the massed defensive ranks in front of us, and what we lack is anyone capable of unlocking the defence by playing RvW in with a needle sharp through ball. The fact is, far from focussing on strengthening our wide play, we have strengthed in the centre with the acquisition of Hooper and Elmander, and behind them Fer. The one notional wide player we have acquired (apart from Olsson who serves the same purpose on the left as Whittaker on the right) is Redmond who in fact is not an out-and-out winger at all as even the most blind amongst us must surely have noticed. People are quick to criticise the manager for rigidity and lack of imagination, while being so rigid and lacking in imagination themselves that all they can "see" is a team not set up in a way that meets their own unimaginative expectations.
Unfortunately Robbie on Saturday I saw a team who seemed to inherit the same problems we had last season, I'd say the pre season friendlies rang a few alarm bells that we desperately need some creativity in the centre of the park or someone who can neaten things up a bit, for me this where we haven't evolved. It could be down to fitness or match sharpness but they've had the whole pre season to sort this out, I found it slightly concerning that we still struggle to hold onto a ball and that's not just directed at the midfield, as collective unit I'm seeing people miss things it's like their still on holiday.
Honestly, I don't get the creativity - we created easily enough chances to score. We failed to do so because of a combination of poor final ball, poor decision making and excellent goalkeeping. With Snodgrass back to full fitness and Pilkington back in, I'm not in the slightest bit worried about our creativity.
And as for holding onto the ball - although we actually held onto it better than we ever have - the real problem was dreadful passing. Yes, we need to improve on this, every team always can, and Hughton actually said that afterwards, but it is impossible to keep the ball when Martin (by way of example only) gives you a hospital pass or boots it straight out.
I see lots of problems. I'm concerned about whether Hughton can manage them all. I see very different problems to last year though, apart from perhaps a lack of crisp passing in triangles in the middle, but even then once Fer has caught up (he has already said it was a tough start) and with Howson looking good, I think that will come. Elmander showed enough nice flicks to suggest he could help there.
In other news, I thought Ruddy's distribution has been quite poor these first two games. Has the thigh injury affected his kicking? Too often it goes straight out or nowhere near anyone who can challenge.
nice post Rob. hightlighting two points, the v 10 men is difficult as you say. secondly, how we perform both tonight and on saturday will be under the spotlight. unfortunate that there is the international break after sat but then everyone is in the same boat there.
on the injuries, given Seb or pilks didn't play for the u21s yesterday makes you hope that they are either playing tonight / in the squad and definitely back for Saints.
Can we please draw a line under this thread which I have found utterly unbelievable. 2 games in and the doom-mongers are out and we are then involved in facile debates about minutiae. really we should be doing betetr than this. 1 point from 6 is a poor return for sure but Rome was not built in a day and I think we all felt that we have the players to improve, so a little more patience please!
