Any football forum other than the Pink'Un is a place for SENSIBLE debate, talking about a change of manager two games into the season is pure histrionics!
How long do we give him?
- Thread starter GozoCanary
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Any football forum other than the Pink'Un is a place for SENSIBLE debate, talking about a change of manager two games into the season is pure histrionics!
Dorset, if you can't see that the style of play in both games this season are a million miles from the dour tripe of last then I hope you are not paying to watch, because you are wasting your money!
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It's pathetic because we are just two games in we have changed 30% of our squad and they need time to settle and also there was far to much whining last year and I did not see the whiners turn up and eat the humble pie they should have been force fed when CH finished higher than lambert did
I don't recall anyone demanding Hughton be sacked!
The point of the debate is about how long is a reasonable time to give him to see how results and performances go.
Let's not forget that although we finished 11th, it could just as easily have been 17th.
The point of the debate is about how long is a reasonable time to give him to see how results and performances go.
Let's not forget that although we finished 11th, it could just as easily have been 17th.
If the question is "how long do we give him?" What other explanation is there?
Sorry Dave, but I think you might need your eyes tested old boy
Yes we played ok against Everton, but I think people are getting carried away when they say it was a great performance from us. I know the stats don't always tell the whole picture but 35% possession and just two shots on target in a home game against a side with a new manager let alone new players who need time to settle in (some people appear oblivious to the fact we're not the only club with new signings) is hardly setting the world on fire.
And anyone who thinks Saturdays performance wasn't as bad as much of what we saw last season was watching a different game to me.
Of course I'm not saying 'Hootun out' by the way, I was a vocal critic of some of our play last yeas but I never called for his head once, and won't be so naive to be doing it so early this year, but I think it's ridiculous that some of us aren't allowed to criticise a bad, bad performance when we seen one.
We've played two games this season, and for me there was promising signs against Everton. Against Hull, we were undone by a poor refereeing decisions, and then once they were down to 10 men they were always going to sit deep and hold on, and that really exploited the flaw in our side that we just can't pass a ball around well and make chances from nothing. Had Hull lost a man at 0-0, or kept all 11 on the pitch at 1-0, we'd have seen a much more open game, which I think we'd have benefited from. Had just one chance found it's way in, I could have seen us winning at a canter as Hull head's dropped. None of that happened, which is a shame.
Yes it's concerning that we couldn't break down a 10-man borderline-championship side in 65 minutes, and the fact we can't seem to get the most out of van Wolfswinkel is also a worry, but I think it's far too early for a snap decisions, particularly when we've been significantly hampered by injuries in both games. If after 10-15 games, we're in the relegation zone and there's nothing to be positive about, then yes, the question needs asking, but I think now is too early.
Yes it's concerning that we couldn't break down a 10-man borderline-championship side in 65 minutes, and the fact we can't seem to get the most out of van Wolfswinkel is also a worry, but I think it's far too early for a snap decisions, particularly when we've been significantly hampered by injuries in both games. If after 10-15 games, we're in the relegation zone and there's nothing to be positive about, then yes, the question needs asking, but I think now is too early.
There is nothing "pathetic" about questioning the manager. Hasty, perhaps, given an injury wracked squad and new players not yet acclimatised, but if results don't improve you have to start questioning at some point.
The set-up, first 20 mins and style yesterday demonstrates that Hughton is planning on having an evolved style of play. There is nothing "same old" about the perfomance yesterday - it was more new problem that has cropped up: how we play when without key players? Personally,I think th performance of the players after the penalty was incredibly disappointing and I am adamant that you can't blame the manager for grossly misplaced passes, silly decisions and errors. Hughton made the right substitutes (whoever suggested that bringing on Snodders showed he realised hed got it wong is bonkers - Snodders was clearly not fit and bringing him on was a brave gamble unlike any we've seen before).
A manager earns his salt by picking the players up after a poor perfomance. The players take the blame here, the manager takes the blame for a string of poor performances. This was what disappointed me last season. Let's see how Hughton and the players react. For the first time I felt Hughton has sai te right thing afte the match. I'm still positive, all good teams have baddays - plenty had them at carrow Road last season. And early a tough time to play promoted teams (look at Man City...) Ultimately, nothing about our performance or Man City's suggets to me the that we won't b midtable by the end of the season, Man City won't be top four an Cardiff/Hull wont be fighting relegation. Ultimately,anomalous results aside, better teams en up higher in the table an one impressuve performamce whn Hull play like solders at the Normandy landings and w play like the French in 1940 in't going to change that. Luck, and quality, evens the tble out. Only when team has an exceptional manage(Ferfuson, Lambert) or a dreadful one (McLeish) does a team finish a few places above or below their talent level. Hufhton is not exciting or a genius, but he' not going to do any damage to our ultimate league position
The set-up, first 20 mins and style yesterday demonstrates that Hughton is planning on having an evolved style of play. There is nothing "same old" about the perfomance yesterday - it was more new problem that has cropped up: how we play when without key players? Personally,I think th performance of the players after the penalty was incredibly disappointing and I am adamant that you can't blame the manager for grossly misplaced passes, silly decisions and errors. Hughton made the right substitutes (whoever suggested that bringing on Snodders showed he realised hed got it wong is bonkers - Snodders was clearly not fit and bringing him on was a brave gamble unlike any we've seen before).
A manager earns his salt by picking the players up after a poor perfomance. The players take the blame here, the manager takes the blame for a string of poor performances. This was what disappointed me last season. Let's see how Hughton and the players react. For the first time I felt Hughton has sai te right thing afte the match. I'm still positive, all good teams have baddays - plenty had them at carrow Road last season. And early a tough time to play promoted teams (look at Man City...) Ultimately, nothing about our performance or Man City's suggets to me the that we won't b midtable by the end of the season, Man City won't be top four an Cardiff/Hull wont be fighting relegation. Ultimately,anomalous results aside, better teams en up higher in the table an one impressuve performamce whn Hull play like solders at the Normandy landings and w play like the French in 1940 in't going to change that. Luck, and quality, evens the tble out. Only when team has an exceptional manage(Ferfuson, Lambert) or a dreadful one (McLeish) does a team finish a few places above or below their talent level. Hufhton is not exciting or a genius, but he' not going to do any damage to our ultimate league position
Based on grandness of illusion, I'm sure Mancini and Di Matteo would both fall over themselves for the job.
Only when I've seen the following line-up play and fail, will I join the Hughton-out brigade:
Ruddy
Martin-Turner-Bassong-Olsson
Snodgrass-Fer-Hoolahan-Pilkington
Hooper-Van Wolfswinkel
Serious question here, what do people see in Tettey? He was great the first couple of games when he arrived and since then, he has absolutely bombed. For some reason, some of you think we should get rid of Fox ahead of him...mind-boggling!
I don't really understand our central midfield options, I'm all for playing two people who tackle hard and protect the defence, but for me they both need a second string to their bows. I'd ideally want one who can spray the ball about, stretching defences and recycling play (so a tough-tackling Fox), and one who makes the runs forward that Tettey or Fer appear to be capable of. Instead we appear to favour playing Johnson who only offers the tackling, and putting Howson alongside, who only offers the runs. I really think we need that player who can pass!
Tettey to me is very similar to how I think Fer likes to play, so for me he's now just back-up for Fer, which isn't that bad a thing to have in the squad, and if he can recapture that pre-christmas form, he'll threaten the first XI.
Sorry Dave, but I think you might need your eyes tested old boy
Yes we played ok against Everton, but I think people are getting carried away when they say it was a great performance from us. I know the stats don't always tell the whole picture but 35% possession and just two shots on target in a home game against a side with a new manager let alone new players who need time to settle in (some people appear oblivious to the fact we're not the only club with new signings) is hardly setting the world on fire.
And anyone who thinks Saturdays performance wasn't as bad as much of what we saw last season was watching a different game to me.
Of course I'm not saying 'Hootun out' by the way, I was a vocal critic of some of our play last yeas but I never called for his head once, and won't be so naive to be doing it so early this year, but I think it's ridiculous that some of us aren't allowed to criticise a bad, bad performance when we seen one.
Stats don't lie... Take the stats from the Everton game and it was a poor performance, if stats were to be believed from the hull game then we it was a good performance! At the end of the day its the result that counts and that's why so many have crawled out from there holes after losing away rather than drawing at home.
Most of the time, a team that has 54% possession and 13 shots at goal with 4 on target against a side who has 46% possession with 6 shots and 1 on target would win... But it was just one of those days!
The one thing that is really getting to me is people comparing to Colchester, Fulham games etc... Seriously get a grip!
I like debate, but this thread is just ridiculous!
I said that, but you have taken it completely out of context. My point was in playing Howson wide, fer, Johnson and tettey together was plain wrong, and that bringing on a (I agree) plainly unfit Snoddy was an admission of a tactical error, if you read through my other posts, I made 2 aalternate suggestions with round pegs in round holes! That was his error, though I agree the players did not help him and I am not shouting for his head, the team needs some time to gel, but if we continue to lose whilst other gelling teams pick up points the I will not be cowtowed by the quite frankly ridiculous CD and is all is fabulous in the rose garden, he (and they) remind me of the chimp I saw at the zoo the other day, it threw up, the ate the throw up, did it again and again, I wonder if he was still telling us how great the rodent was, and to stop being negative right to the bitter end!
For the record, again! I think this thread is a little early and I believe the players and the management team will get us heading in the right direction and soon, I am not CH's biggest fan but I have seen enough positives including a slight tweek in how we play, possibly even for the better. The thing is the PL is a very unforgiving environment and we cannot be slow to gel because it may be to late!
and one last point, for those who continue to draw comparison with Lambert, yes CH had us finish higher, but it was with more resources, and less points! But that's irrelevant as he isn't now our manager if he was maybe we'd be in Europe maybe we'd be championship? Pointless! How long has it been now?
Bah!
If Tettey, Johnson and Fer start many more games together against teams from the bottom half I think a lot of people will start properly getting the jump.
You will probably never see that lineup, so you will never join that brigade
Beat me to it, he wouldn't play that line up if they were the only 11 fit players!
Bah!
So I'm frankly ridiculous because I support my team, if that is so, then I'm happy to be ridiculous rather than a constantly moaning Minnie!
Are we talking about the Johnson who scored two great headed goals against Panathinaikos and afterwards said that he was being encouraged to get into the box more? Or the Howson who said after scoring his great goals at the end of last season that he should have been getting forward more than he had been? Why do we have to see one midfielder as designated to sit in front of the back four and defend, and another as allowed to make forward runs, etc. etc.? None of our midfielders are dedicated DMs, who simply sweep up in front of the back four (rather as the old sweeper used to be employed to do behind a back three). We have six central midfielders -- Johnson, Tettey, Fer, Howson, Butterfield, Hoolahan, all of whom are required to play their part when defending as a team, and all of whom are quite capable of joining in our attacking play. Whoever is selected on the day plays with that dual brief of defending when defense is required, and attacking when able.
If people are puzzled about CH's deployment of Fer, I suggest they think about how Barkley played for Everton against us the other Saturday. He was a massive factor in central midfield in their attacking play, linking with Pienaar, Jelavic and Miralles. But he also dropped back into defence alongside Fellaini and Osman when required. If on the other hand Fer is selected to play as one of the two more withdrawn central midfielders, he will play a similar role to Fellaini. Whoever partners him in that withdrawn position can be thought of as playing the same role as Osman.
Dave, please enlighten us to the differences that describes us being a million miles away from the tripe of last year.
In a non histrionic way though please.
Tell us about the midfield?
The ridiculous comes from your perception that the only way to be a true fan is to be unswervingly positive, apparently if you have an opinion that is slightly differing, i.e. You have the temerity to actually question the style of the football, the managers tactics, or anything NCFC you are plain wrong!
General "plain wrong" Melchett
Bah!