Suarez News (#ONTOPIC)

[Foredeckdave]

The fact that Liverpool do no want to sell to a rival is their choice & a perfectly acceptable strategic decision, but it's not what was being discussed.

Arsenal bid £40m, this bid has not been bettered, or matched by anyone else, however, they were prepared to pay it, so they therefore value the player at £40m. This therefore sets his current market value at £40m. You are not prepared to accept that sum, irrespective of the rival factor, as you have clearly said you value him much higher. That is of course your prerogative, but the market price is ultimately set by what someone is prepared to pay & that is currently £40m.

If they take less than that in the future then they're taking less than the current market value, that's a simple & undeniable fact.

p.s. Blocking / rejecting, lol pedantry at it's finest.

Wake UP! You really are talking out of your backside. The MARKET PRICE is only arrived at when a deal is concluded. An offer is merely that an offer which may or may not have a direct bearing on the finally agreed price.

If Liverpool had entered into negotiations with Arsenal and agreed a sale price then you would have been safe to bet that the final figure would have been in excess of what Arsenal offered to begin those negotiations. Until you understand that it is the final agreed price that seals the market price then all of your other contentions start from a false premise.

The current market price for Suarez is £22m because that is what Liverpool paid for him. From here on in it is the price at which Liverpool are prepared to conclude a deal that will establish a new market price.

You really are being totally stupid!

 

[johnsonsbaby]

Forfeits

mito banned from Everton board for month
Tobes banned from our board for month

 

[Tobes]

Wake UP! You really are talking out of your backside. The MARKET PRICE is only arrived at when a deal is concluded. An offer is merely that an offer which may or may not have a direct bearing on the finally agreed price.

If Liverpool had entered into negotiations with Arsenal and agreed a sale price then you would have been safe to bet that the final figure would have been in excess of what Arsenal offered to begin those negotiations. Until you understand that it is the final agreed price that seals the market price then all of your other contentions start from a false premise.

The current market price for Suarez is £22m because that is what Liverpool paid for him. From here on in it is the price at which Liverpool are prepared to conclude a deal that will establish a new market price.

You really are being totally stupid!

Oh ffs, how can the current market value for him be £22m when there's been a formal offer on the table for him for £40m?

That's like saying the current market value of your house is what you paid for it 1979, as that's the last transacted price.

Stop talking like a twat man.

 

[saintanton]

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[Foredeckdave]

Oh ffs, how can the current market value for him be £22m when there's been a formal offer on the table for him for £40m?

That's like saying the current market value of your house is what you paid for it 1979, as that's the last transacted price.

Stop talking like a twat man.

You are a complete and utter fool! As the offer was not accepted and no deal was made then the offer cannot be the market price. Until you understand that you will never understand pricing policy.

 

[InBiscanWeTrust]

You are a complete and utter fool! As the offer was not accepted and no deal was made then the offer cannot be the market price. Until you understand that you will never understand pricing policy.

I disagree. The market value for him is at least £40mil (plus £1), as a formal offer was made and rejected at that price. Therefore we know he is worth at least £40mil, how much more is up for debate but you can't say his current value is £22.5mil as there is definite interest at a price above that.

 

[Sir_Red]

22.5£m is Suarez's historic or book value. His market value is up for debate and is most certainly not £22.5m. Market value is the price we COULD sell Suarez for today in the open market, of course it's up for debate what it is, it's not absolute.

 

[ttliv87]

"so they therefore value the player at £40m."


No they don't, they value him much higher than that, only they thought they could get him on the cheap because of a clause, and made themselves look like clueless bellends in the process.

 

[johnsonsbaby]

The Legal Dictionary definition of market value:

The highest price a willing buyer would pay and a willing seller would accept, both being fully informed, and the 'property' being exposed for sale for a reasonable period of time. The market value may be different from the price a 'property' can actually be sold for at a given time (market price). The market value of an article or piece of 'property' is the price that it might be expected to bring if offered for sale in a fair market; not the price that might be obtained on a sale at public auction or a sale forced by the necessities of the owner, but such a price as would be fixed by negotiation and mutual agreement, after ample time to find a purchaser, as between a vendor who is willing (but not compelled) to sell and a purchaser who desires to buy but is not compelled to take the particular article or piece of property.



Pick the bones out of that! [I underlined the bit I though most applied here]

 

[Sir_Red]

The Legal Dictionary definition of market value:

The highest price a willing buyer would pay and a willing seller would accept, both being fully informed, and the 'property' being exposed for sale for a reasonable period of time. The market value may be different from the price a 'property' can actually be sold for at a given time (market price). The market value of an article or piece of 'property' is the price that it might be expected to bring if offered for sale in a fair market; not the price that might be obtained on a sale at public auction or a sale forced by the necessities of the owner, but such a price as would be fixed by negotiation and mutual agreement, after ample time to find a purchaser, as between a vendor who is willing (but not compelled) to sell and a purchaser who desires to buy but is not compelled to take the particular article or piece of property.

Pick the bones out of that! [I underlined the bit I though most applied here]

Yup , it's part of the reason fund managers can be twats, they make all their money from percentages off imaginary capital gains. Assets are revalued yearly to "market value", so they get a surveyor to revalue (all pretty subjective) the funds' assets (in situations where funds invest directly into property/businesses, rather than fund of funds). Money is then taken out of the fund to pay the fund manager as reward for increasing the value of the fund, even when the real value of the fund is actually not known until sale (of fund or assets).

Suarez will be down, at the moment, as a £50m quid player in our balance sheets imo, I guess that would be our interpretation of his market value.

Incidentally anyone (fordeck?) know how players are accounted for? Are they down as an asset in the bs?

 

[Foredeckdave]

The Market Price is the price at which the buyer and the seller find value. Others may use that figure for their own purposes but it is essentially unique to the buyer and seller.

As has been pointed out previously Suarez does not have one market value he has a series of them depending upon the nature of the relationship between Liverpool and the club making the offer. At the present time there is no value between Liverpool and Arsenal as John Henry refuses to sell to them. The price at which Liverpool may sell to another Premiership club has not been established and has only been hinted at by Liverpool. The journalist and commentators can dream up figures all they want but they have nothing upon which to base their assertions.

It has been suggested that Liverpool may be prepared to sell Saurez to a foreign side at a fee far lower than they would be prepared to accept from a premiership side. This may well be true and has not been denied by Liverpool. If this is true then it only adds to the strength of the contention that there is really no established market value. After all many players in this transfer window have and will change not only clubs but countries. Hence the market is international. So the artificial figure offered by Arsenal has no effect or influence when considered in the wider market.

In such circumstances the only true value that can be attached to the player is the last sum that was paid for him. All the rest is just pure speculation.

 

[Foredeckdave]

Yup , it's part of the reason fund managers can be twats, they make all their money from percentages off imaginary capital gains. Assets are revalued yearly to "market value", so they get a surveyor to revalue (all pretty subjective) the funds' assets (in situations where funds invest directly into property/businesses, rather than fund of funds). Money is then taken out of the fund to pay the fund manager as reward for increasing the value of the fund, even when the real value of the fund is actually not known until sale (of fund or assets).

Suarez will be down, at the moment, as a £50m quid player in our balance sheets imo, I guess that would be our interpretation of his market value.

Incidentally anyone (fordeck?) know how players are accounted for? Are they down as an asset in the bs?

There is, as far as I understand it, no universal valuation or amortisation process used by all of the clubs. However, it is the value of their contracts that are accounted for in the Balance Sheet.

 

[Tobes]

I disagree. The market value for him is at least £40mil (plus £1), as a formal offer was made and rejected at that price. Therefore we know he is worth at least £40mil, how much more is up for debate but you can't say his current value is £22.5mil as there is definite interest at a price above that.

Exactly but that won't stop donkey Dave trying to argue to the contrary

 

[Tobes]

There is, as far as I understand it, no universal valuation or amortisation process used by all of the clubs. However, it is the value of their contracts that are accounted for in the Balance Sheet.

There is a universal way of accounting for the intangible asset value of a player. The amortisation of the purchase price is over the first contract length.

 

[Super G Ted'inho]

Surely his worth in terms of BS is the £22.7m we paid for him? Afterall, that is the investment made and the cost to the club at this time.

 

[astro]

There is a universal way of accounting for the intangible asset value of a player. The amortisation of the purchase price is over the first contract length.

Our amortisation policy is more robust than yours
Our amortisation policy's more robust than yours

 

[HugoEkitikeN01]

Open market Suarez have more value than Bale. Suarez was quoted £M58 and Bale £M53, so I can understand why Liverpool
cannot accept £M40 for him

 

[HugoEkitikeN01]

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....But you are driving yourself. Happy landing.

 

[Tobes]

Surely his worth in terms of BS is the £22.7m we paid for him? Afterall, that is the investment made and the cost to the club at this time.

No, as post Bosman you have to write down the asset value over the initial contract length, as the asset is worthless at the end of contract if they choose not to renew. So 2 years into a 4 year contract they'd sit on the bs at 50% of the purchase price

 

[Super G Ted'inho]

No, as post Bosman you have to write down the asset value over the initial contract length, as the asset is worthless at the end of contract if they choose not to renew. So 2 years into a 4 year contract they'd sit on the bs at 50% of the purchase price

So a very simple depreciation then, makes sense