I don't have a foreign scout network at my disposal (much as I'd like one). I'm sure this guy is good, its not him I distrust, its the manager. If Hughton was going for smaller players then I'd know he would be changing his style of play. I don't really want attacking midfielders, we need players to keep the ball, not give it away time after time for no reason. We just have to many players who want to give the ball away for the sake of looking like they are trying to score. I want players that will play across the midfield, not wide and then cross. I just have no time for it, only just above long central balls in the ranks of footballing standards. I thought Hughton was going to go for quick counter attack which would of at least been a development in the style of play. Its now looking like more of the same just with better players.
Fair enough, but as I said Toivonen doesn't like it in the air and his strengths are apparently shooting from range, passing and his strength on the ball, not heading. If anything from the evidence we have, targeting Toivonen can only really be designed to help our ball retention further up the pitch. His height seems to be a red herring, apart from helping him to hold off defenders with strength. Bear in mind that the player we have been most heavily linked to is Hooper and he is pretty short
Thats why I'd hope we are signing him for the best reasons, not because as some reports have said he is physical and as I've heard exceptional with heading goals. I love the ball on the floor bit, its just find it hard to trust Hughtons intentions, because it will just piss him off if that ball is not being played through the middle and on the floor.
If you just trusted CH a bit more carrabuh you wouldn't have to worry about us "not signing him for the best reasons". Truth is, you aren't "judging" the manager, you've made up your mind about him long ago, and you are reading your preconceived idea into every new development. Snodgrass doesn't fit your view of CH's preferred style of play, Van Wolfswinkel doesn't fit your view of CH's preferred style of play, and it is far from obvious that Hooper and Toivonen fit your view of CH's preferred style of play. The signing that would really make sense if you were right about CH would be Andy Carroll. I guess the only reason we haven't gone in for him is the fee and wages?
Whilst I understand Carrabuh's point about 'quick counter attacks' (something I was hoping for as well), I think Toivenon could be the sort of player to 'boss' the mid-field and set up goals or score himself, but not so much from 'long crosses'. By all accounts, he likes to run at defences either directly or with telling passes. He can also score with long shots, which is something City have been lacking from CM in recent years. He would be a different option from Howson, and a good one IMO.
Oh I see, I thought you meant that by signing him it shows that is the style Hughton is going for. Where did you hear that he is good at heading the ball? As you can probably tell from the incredulity above, no-one else has mentioned this. I thought that the interesting decision in this debate was letting Kamara go. If Hughton had wanted to play long crosses aiming for a player who can head the ball incredibly and is rapid, we had one ready made and willing to sign and cheap. When we didn't offer Kamara anything, for the first time, I genuinely started to believe Hughton wanted to change the way we play this season compared to last
if i may interject for a moment here, i think carrabuh needs a little more information about the guy we are in talks with. this guff about hughton's style is also really grinding. he won't want to play ugly long balls and he won't want to play tippy tappy around the back nonsense - he wants to play bits of both, a blend (perfected by man utd who have been the masters of it for years), because that is going to be the best way for our club to progress at this stage. why pigeon hole ourselves into a little clique? we have good physical traits within our squad as it stands so the next stage is to blend more talented footballers into it. there will not be a blanket change. to be honest, ola toivonen should actually be carrabuh's wet dream as he's predominantly a ball player. ignore his height - his game is not about height - that's merely a bonus. he's a skilful footballer, one who uses his brain. he's not quick, not fleet of foot, but his brain is sharp. (i shall now make comparisons to players - do not take this to mean he is as good or better than them!) he's clever with his feet - not silky like a david silva but smooth like a robert pires. difference is, the boy does like to get stuck in. he's a complete bastard - winds up opponents for 90 minutes - you'd much rather have him on your side than against. he shoots from distance all the time - incredibly powerful shot on him. he scores goals, lots of them from midfield (area of weakness from last season). he's a drifter - he can pop up on the left wing, just in front of the defence or furthest forward attacker - he'll search out the ball one minute and the next he'll be searching for space. he's mainly right footed but not to the same degree as hoolahan is a leftie. he has the strength of a fellaini and knows how to use his body to gain advantage (a la holt). he's terrific in the air but why should this be a downer? if a cross comes in he'll get his head to it. he's a physical player but also a talented ball player - best of both worlds. the best way to stres how good a signing this would be is to say that i believe he is worth a lot more than the £4.7m we have agreed on - i'd say closer to £8m is true value. in my opinion, he's exactly the sort of player everton would sign. i think that if we are trying to bring in players good enough to play for the team who just finished 6th then we should all be delighted. not sure if we'll get him. i was 50/50 when i heard we'd had our bid accepted. with the news he's entered talks i'm now up to 60/40. my fingers are crossed.
It would be strange if someone of his height didn't score headed goals, but that doesn't make him a 'target man', although that's the way Sweden played him recently. I believe him when he says he wants balls to his feet and to play through the mid-field and I would hope that CH sees him providing more penetration from mid-field and I would also welcome that.
Thanks for the update Supers. I think it's 'glass half full' time on him playing in 'Yellow and Green' next season!!!!
Snodgrass is very much Hughtons style of player on th]e basis of our season. I hope he signs the guy for the good bits and the heading as a bonus and not the other way round. I think that's reasonable and the evidence of the season gone would suggest this. I personally hope we sign him. I'm 100% all for playing through the middle and on the floor. Also, (RiverendRicK) I don't want to see a counter attack style, its just the direction I thought Hughton was going to bring in.
i assume you're a fan of snoddy carrabuh? old fashioned winger, takes his man on, works hard going forward and working back, team player, plays off the back foot (unusual these days - it takes skill rather than speed to play that way). i mean, what does 'hughton style player' even mean?!
He can head, theres a few goals of his on you tube from headers More long range shots and good finishes from good crosses
he has been heavily misquoted regarding 'heading'. what he actually said was that he doesn't like high balls all the time. trust me, he's phenomenal with his head in and around the six yard box. late charges into the box from deep, cross comes in and boom. playing him in a hoolahan type role would probably be the best way of playing to all his strengths and i'd imagine RvW would love to play with two players as diverse but as creative as toivonen and hoolahan
I know you say he wants to play both, but the truth is it was rare that he did. I'd personally take what happens on the field a little more seriously. Just saying "he won't want to play ugly balls" when he's used it for a pretty much for a whole season doesn't really wash pyjamas. If he didn't want to do it then he wouldn't have done it. Hughton may change, and I really hope he does but I will wait until it happens before I change my mind. A I've said I hope we sign him, and I hope we use him correctly.
I like Snodgrass alot, I was very pleased when we signed him, he's good at what he does, but he's not a passer of the ball. He's Hughton style of player because he crosses from distance, he doesn't get to the byline and near the goal (through passing) and pull the ball back (something we are incredibly poor at).
it was rare that we played both? i thought we played both all season pretty much, we just didn't execute either technique very well. what we didn't do was attack quickly enough when we did get the ball - never had enough options. we just didn't keep the ball well enough and for long enough - that is something that toivonen would help with. i simply think you've made your mind up (wrongly in the opinion of almost everyone on here it seems) and that's it - you're not for turning. it's not about hughton changing - it's about having more options to utilise. if you think lambert's style was 'pleasing on the eye' i'd be very interested to know why - because he was arguably a lot more direct than hughton was last year - he was just more flamboyant. if you expect a 100% change of style next season or even the season after that then you'll be very disappointed - what you will see is improvement in the quality of play - you won't be watching the second coming of barcelona.
I didn't mean 'counter attacking' as a style, Carrabuh, but as an option to keep the opposing defence playing too high a line. Last season City's play became predictable at times and I would like to see the opposition kept off balance more by varying the attack and a lot more movement up front and in mid-field. IMO, Toivenon could help with that.
You know as well as I do as I had countless arguments with yourself and others about Lamberts use of long ball (of which you defended as being direct) so I'm quite surprised with that comment. I'm not asking for Barcelona, I'm not asking for all out attack, I'm not asking to get rid of 5 in the middle (of which I 'm a big fan). I'm against a reliance on long crosses, long balls, and a lack of passing across the midfield. All of which where abundant under Hughtons stewardship.
