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He seems to be unable to remain concentarated and composed troughout the match, he has lapses in concentation and is known to make some wrong/hasty/rash decisions which can be very costly

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Sounds like a perfect fit to me! <laugh>
 
SouthamptonFCroatia said:
I follow three teams regulary; Southampton, Olympique Lyon and AC Milan. I nearly never miss a game from these teams.




I will try to put things in perspective; he is definitely better than Hooiveld and Fonte, so he is an improvment of a kind. He is also probably no worse than Yoshida, at least. I am a bit disappointed i guess because i expected someone really top notch. Lovren is good, but I know all of his flaws, so i can't be as excited as others. We are getting a good player, but also a flawed player. Physically, he is great; fast(for a CB), strong, agile. He is also very good at man marking and defending one-on-one situations. Those are his virtues. His main problems are of mental nature. He seems to be unable to remain concentarated and composed troughout the match, he has lapses in concentation and is known to make some wrong/hasty/rash decisions which can be very costly. If he could elimnate those mistakes from his game, he would really be class CB. This way he is just an average Prem defender. But hopefully he can still improve.

And Pochettino's way of playing will probably suit him, it seems he is more suited for an aggressive pressing game than conventional 'sitting deep and waiting' defence. That's probaby the reason they went for him.
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Hooray, we've got a pacy centre back! <party>
 
Schad said:
Actually, we didn't have a fair bit of fortune. We were tied for the twelfth-best goal differential, which is a decent indicator that we did not luck our way to survival. We generally outplayed our results, in point of fact.

And take a look at the players you wanted replaced...they are the older veterans. Fox/Jos were players brought in to fill gaps, not to push on. Of course, they were brought in to fill gaps at the Championship level, not the Prem.
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Precisely. And when we get into europe by all means discard our premier league journeymen.



Of course they can fall to pieces. So too can supposedly seasoned veterans.
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But you're not signing the journeymen for next season. You're signing them for this season. By next season you're not looking to consolidate any more. You sell them to Crystal Palace.

We didn't spend a fortune. For one, substantial transfer fees are a reality at this level. For another, because our wage bill is below-average, the sticker shock of transfer fees is offset by the fact that we aren't spending ourselves into oblivion in pay packets. Thus, we broke even or turned a profit despite the outlay, which is the advantage of buying young and/or foreign.

There is a reason that, when Cortese was making noise about wanting backing, there was a tonne of talk from journos about how well-regarded he is around the football world, and how he'd find a new job within minutes if he left little old Saints. There's broad recognition that he's doing an impressive job of identifying and acquiring players that, if not for circumstances, we'd have no hope of getting. And he gets credit for taking those managed risks in the hope of pushing beyond our station rather than settling for the treadmill of mid-table, acquiring older players with no upside...a treadmill that most teams eventually fall off.
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We did spend a fortune. We spent more than most other clubs. We spent substantially more than anyone around us, except maybe QPR in January.

I'm not suggesting staying on the treadmill. I'm suggesting not starting your debut premier league season with only one first team standard player with top flight experience (i know cork had one season on loan with burnley, let's say more than one season of experience) and not starting the season with Kelvin and Danny in the team.

Signing Clyne and Rodriguez, Fine. Inducting JWP and Shaw into the first team, Fine. Bringing in Mayuka, Yoshida, Ramirez in on top of that was risky and we need only have sacrificed one or two of them for a couple of experienced heads.

In the end we didn't have to sacrifice anyone for Boruc but the decision should have been made earlier.
 
Sotonist said:
Precisely. And when we get into europe by all means discard our premier league journeymen.
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But you don't get into Europe with journeymen.

But you're not signing the journeymen for next season. You're signing them for this season. By next season you're not looking to consolidate any more. You sell them to Crystal Palace.
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Except that it rarely works that way. It's very difficult to transition from a staid, veteran side to a young one in a blink of an eye, without risking the very things you're afraid of risking.

We did spend a fortune. We spent more than most other clubs. We spent substantially more than anyone around us, except maybe QPR in January.
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Again, you're looking at one half of the equation. We spent big in transfer fees. We spent considerably less in wages, largely because we bought from leagues where wages are much lower. Both sides represent expenditure; you cannot look at one in isolation and ignore the other.

I'm not suggesting a treadmill. I'm suggesting not starting your debut premier league season with only one first team standard player with top flight experience and not starting the season with Kelvin and Danny in the team.
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But we did, we survived, and now we can push on.
 
Sotonist said:
High wages and declining value over Kelvin, Jos, and Danny any day. Radhi didn't do us too much harm. Until he brought us Mayuka.

Yes we survived. Despite some ludicrous risks taken in the summer transfer market and in timing of management changes. We also managed promotion the season before despite running out of steam after the first third of the season was done and our momentum subsided. We've seen a fair bit of fortune and flown by the seat of our pants at times on our way up.

A far better position? Debatable.

I don't subscribe to the "They will only improve" mantra people trot out about young players. There are two other options. Stagnate or fall to pieces for any number of reasons.

We still paid a fortune for players we didn't use and have plenty of players on the books who played no part last season and may not in the coming season either.
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We spent 12m on gaston- this was a big purchase. If you are one of his detractors and can't see quality then I won't bother to attempt to convince you he was good value. J-Rod 7m, showed his potential mid-late season and most would agree he wasn't a bad purchase. Clyne has been outstanding. Davis has been very good at times. Mayuka has still not been given a proper run- too early to say. Not entirely sure why he wasn't used. Boruc- fine piece of business. Forren- is one for the future, may see him next season. Don't see what your problem is with our purchases.

As for players on the books do I need to go through the steps necessary to sell a player? Please don't tell me I need to explain what a contract is?
 
Mikey said:
Indeed, it was weird, thinking maybe for some reason in translating he got a little confused, like he meant he was going to be 24 this year or when the season started or something? Pretty bizarre.
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I regularly forget how old I am, sometimes missing by as much as two years, so Lovren missing the mark by a month isn't too bad.
 
Schad said:
But you don't get into Europe with journeymen.
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The journeymen were for consolidation. We got away without them. It might have been more comfortable with one or two more. Pushing on to europe we're not going to discard Davis until we get there are we.
Now the kind of journeyman we'd need to sign is one who has European experience. But it would be better to sign a high end player like maybe Verdu.

Except that it rarely works that way. It's very difficult to transition from a staid, veteran side to a young one in a blink of an eye, without risking the very things you're afraid of risking.
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Who said we should have a team of journeymen? One or two more experienced players. Just not nine kids on the field with Lambert and Davis.

Again, you're looking at one half of the equation. We spent big in transfer fees. We spent considerably less in wages, largely because we bought from leagues where wages are much lower. Both sides represent expenditure; you cannot look at one in isolation and ignore the other.
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We offered bonanza wages and seem to be continuing to do so. From what i read about Lovren, he was set to move to whoever paid him the most this summer. Until Manchester united came calling we were undoubtedly doing the same with Buttner.

I'm under no illusions that the kind of hefty wages we're paying for talents who are unproven would get us proven journeymen. I'm not saying don't go for the talents, but don't ignore experience. we took a very risky approach and only in hindsight does it stand up.

But we did, we survived, and now we can push on.
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And? It doesn't mean the transfer business was wise at the time.
 
This experienced journeyman thing sounds a bit QPRish to me. Don't know anything about Lovren and reading this thread will probably make me annoyed. His record looks good so I'm happy.

Can't change title on tablet.
 
Lovelocum said:
We spent 12m on gaston- this was a big purchase. If you are one of his detractors and can't see quality then I won't bother to attempt to convince you he was good value.
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Good, because last season he was worth about £4m to us at best. Forget resale value. What was he worth in terms of his contribution? Not a £12m player. No way.

He may become good value. But he wasn't good value.

J-Rod 7m, showed his potential mid-late season and most would agree he wasn't a bad purchase. Clyne has been outstanding. Davis has been very good at times. Mayuka has still not been given a proper run- too early to say. Not entirely sure why he wasn't used. Boruc- fine piece of business. Forren- is one for the future, may see him next season. Don't see what your problem is with our purchases.
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The problem is that only clyne and davis were really fit for purpose throughout last season. We spent something like £30m and the players who were worth the money we paid (and more) were only about a couple of million of that.

As for players on the books do I need to go through the steps necessary to sell a player? Please don't tell me I need to explain what a contract is?
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No you don't. My point is we're overloaded with players who contribute nothing
regardless of the purported aim not to pick up journeymen that's exactly what we're getting. tons of chaff.
 
THe silver lining is that with the ludicrous increase in revenue, the chaff will now be a tiny proportion of the budget.
 
Mikey said:
Indeed, it was weird, thinking maybe for some reason in translating he got a little confused, like he meant he was going to be 24 this year or when the season started or something? Pretty bizarre.
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six months towards my birthday I tend to think of myself as that age tbh.
 
Sotonist said:
Good, because last season he was worth about £4m to us at best. Forget resale value. What was he worth in terms of his contribution? Not a £12m player. No way.
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Well we didn't pay £12 million for one ****ing season of him did we?
 
----HistoryRepeating---- said:
Gastons price never sat well with me, but I can see that he is worth closer to 12 than 4. I think he'll do well next year, but even if he doesn't we will not lose out in any big way.
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Only because of potential.

On performance last season, let's say he had peaked or if he was 29, he'd be nowhere near that.
 
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