Summer 2013 Transfer Rumour Thread

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saintgreg10 said:
How can he not be happy with Wonga, yet quite content with Virgin Money?? They're both corporate financial institutions, so if we're going to talk about ethics and principles, there's no difference between the two is there?
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Just a few hundred percentage points of interest, probably!
I am pretty sure that interest charging on eg. loans is forbidden by Islam - in which case you're possibly right that disagreeing with one and not the other is a bit inconsistent. But if he was that hardline, he wouldn't be able to ply his trade as a professional footballer in the first place. At any top club anyway, unless they were sponsored by Emirates (actually, that would give him a choice of about half the clubs in the world, it seems) or some other non-financial/gambling institution. Maybe he just draws the line at extremes?
 
Saintjoey said:
I'm lucky enough to have studied Islamic Business Principles. Any type of unequal financial transfer (interest) is forbidden by Shariah Law. However, all major banks now have Shariah Permissible arms to access the huge and increasing Islamic market. So Virgin will, most likely, have a Shariah permissible branch set up somewhere like Bahrain whereas I'm fairly sure Wonga do not!
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You are indeed truly blessed to study such a diverse and exhilarating subject
 
Plus the fact wonga's business plan is to blatantly rip off the poor and needy.
 
Saintjoey said:
I'm lucky enough to have studied Islamic Business Principles. Any type of unequal financial transfer (interest) is forbidden by Shariah Law. However, all major banks now have Shariah Permissible arms to access the huge and increasing Islamic market. So Virgin will, most likely, have a Shariah permissible branch set up somewhere like Bahrain whereas I'm fairly sure Wonga do not!
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That's interesting. Off topic, but if you're not allowed to charge interest then what's the point of lending the money at all?

I would still say that Cisse's principles can't be that strong if they allow him to wear the logo of a company whose primary activities involve charging interest but also have one section of the company that doesn't. By that logic you could wear, say, a brewery logo providing the brewery also makes and sells at least one non-alcoholic drink.
 
Puck said:
I would still say that Cisse's principles can't be that strong if they allow him to wear the logo of a company whose primary activities involve charging interest but also have one section of the company that doesn't. By that logic you could wear, say, a brewery logo providing the brewery also makes and sells at least one non-alcoholic drink.
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Not really, Muslims could use the products/services of that company as they might make specific exception for them. Wonga is a service which to Muslims is totally haram. The two are really very different.
 
Puck said:
But the story hasn't been that he thinks Wonga are screwing the poor, it's that money lending for profit is against his beliefs as a Muslim. The only difference between Wonga and Virgin is the interest rates they charge and I highly doubt the Koran specifies what interest rate is permitted and what is not.
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I don't know why people assume Muslims follow the Koran word-for-word but no one makes the same assumption of Christians and the Bible (which I'm pretty sure contains the same point about it not being ethical to charge interest). You don't have to be religious to see that the way payday lenders target the desperate, and gloss over the fact that they're royally ****ing these people one way or another, is highly unethical.

I'm sure modern religion interprets that banks are a necessity, and as such you can probably forgive them for the reasonable interest rates which they need in order to function. Payday lenders aren't necessary and aren't reasonable, and their practice is pretty unethical from any angle, religious or not.
 
Joe Steinberg said:
Payday lenders aren't necessary and aren't reasonable, and their practice is pretty unethical from any angle, religious or not.
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If they did not have flashy adverts on the TV or bright logos on the front of football shirts, we may be watching these people on documentaries from Panorama or whoever .... and they could be called "Loan Sharks" and be cruising round low income housing areas threatening people with a bat.
 
Didn't mean to steer us that far off topic.

I find payday lenders abhorrent, but I also despise stupidity. How can people not know what they're getting into when they take one of those 'loans'. When people can apply for a loan and get the money within the hour, with no guarantor, do they really not know they are going to get f****d over?

So anyway, any transfer gossip?
 
Lovelocum said:
I find payday lenders abhorrent, but I also despise stupidity. How can people not know what they're getting into when they take one of those 'loans'. When people can apply for a loan and get the money within the hour, with no guarantor, do they really not know they are going to get f****d over?
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It's not necessarily that people are stupid. More that people can be desperate in certain scenarios.
 
Joe Steinberg said:
I don't know why people assume Muslims follow the Koran word-for-word but no one makes the same assumption of Christians and the Bible (which I'm pretty sure contains the same point about it not being ethical to charge interest). You don't have to be religious to see that the way payday lenders target the desperate, and gloss over the fact that they're royally ****ing these people one way or another, is highly unethical.

I'm sure modern religion interprets that banks are a necessity, and as such you can probably forgive them for the reasonable interest rates which they need in order to function. Payday lenders aren't necessary and aren't reasonable, and their practice is pretty unethical from any angle, religious or not.
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I wasn't assuming Muslims follow the Koran word for word, I was making a point in a somewhat flippant manner. The point being that if you're against making a profit from money lending on principle (and he has reportedly said he is) then you're against making profit from money lending and the rate of interest the money lender charges shouldn't be relevant. If he'd said he objects to their interest rates then that would be a different discussion.

All this stuff about Virgin possibly offering loans that are Sharia compliant (I've had a quick look at their website and wiki page and can't see anything to suggest they do) seems like rubbish to me. They profit from money lending and that is precisely what the reports say Cisse objects to. That's somewhat irrelevant though.

I'm not going to defend payday lenders too much, they are obviously exploiting people to some extent but nobody is forced to use them, the users obviously believe that taking out such a loan is better than not taking out such a loan.
 
Puck said:
That's interesting. Off topic, but if you're not allowed to charge interest then what's the point of lending the money at all?

I would still say that Cisse's principles can't be that strong if they allow him to wear the logo of a company whose primary activities involve charging interest but also have one section of the company that doesn't. By that logic you could wear, say, a brewery logo providing the brewery also makes and sells at least one non-alcoholic drink.
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The whole point of lending in the Islamic religion is in return for gratitude (according to the Qu'raan at least). Islamic financial institutions make their money by investing stakeholders funds into safe, Shariah permissible investment schemes (property etc)
 
Lovelocum:4859274 said:
How can people not know what they're getting into when they take one of those 'loans'. When people can apply for a loan and get the money within the hour, with no guarantor, do they really not know they are going to get f****d over?
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Unfortunately it's not that simple when a single parent doesn't want their children to miss a birthday or be the only kids in their class without Christmas etc. and that's just one example.

I agree that these companies are the scum of the earth, sickens me that they still exist.
 
Can someone get NC and MP on this message board please?

If they read the last few pages of this thread surely they will realise that a signing needs to be made pronto as we are all going mad! Pay the agents what you want, pay the players what you want...anything to get us to stop discussing the shirt sponsors of Newcastle United!!!!
 
Joe Steinberg said:
I don't know why people assume Muslims follow the Koran word-for-word but no one makes the same assumption of Christians and the Bible (which I'm pretty sure contains the same point about it not being ethical to charge interest). You don't have to be religious to see that the way payday lenders target the desperate, and gloss over the fact that they're royally ****ing these people one way or another, is highly unethical.

I'm sure modern religion interprets that banks are a necessity, and as such you can probably forgive them for the reasonable interest rates which they need in order to function. Payday lenders aren't necessary and aren't reasonable, and their practice is pretty unethical from any angle, religious or not.
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Religious moral truths don't evolve alongside the economy. The point in them is that they are divinely inspired, not inspired by economic or social context.
 
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