Back to tyres...

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The teams are to blame for this too. They're slow to help but quick to criticise. Lotus were the only team to do them a favour by giving them a newer car to test on. Then when the Lotus proved to be light on its feet the other teams kicked off saying it was because Pirelli were using a Lotus to develop the tyres. The logical thing to do in that situation would be to supply Pirelli your own car to test on so they have a broader range of cars to test on to make sure the tyres are suitable for all teams. No. They say Pirelli shouldn't use the Lotus so they now have no test car, presumably they're using and old Toyota or HRT to design next year's. How on Earth is that going to help things?

And Lotus have always been kind on their tyres, so there's no evidence they've benefitted massively from Pirelli using their car anyway, the other teams are just using that as a scapegoat to excuse their own underperformances.

The sensible thing to do would be to bring back a few in season tests to develop next year's tyres. Even if it's just staying on at a track for two days after a grand prix. The teams who take it seriously and try to supply Pirelli with a car which handles and delivers power like next year's car should get tyres they can work with next season. The teams who abuse it and try to use it to develop this year's car, or **** about trying to hide what they've got next season will reap what they sow when the tyres don't work on their car.
 
There should be some sort of system for Pirelli to test their tyres on modern cars, maybe even have the team who came 10th in the previous season renting the car to Pirelli. This will help the slower teams whilst providing a car thats not a million miles away from what F1 currently is.

All teams will moan that its not fair on them but it should just be forced through as for the greater good of F1.
 
MaxWhiplash said:
I agree absolutely with RR about moving the goalposts mid-game, it's just not on. I also agree that something has gone badly wrong with the tyres and the pressure on Pirelli to engineer a spectacle. But, I don't believe that the blame lies solely between the FIA and the type of audience you describe; yes, the enfeebled FIA have failed here but the blame must also lie with Bernie's bunch and their greed for growth and the media's perception of what the audience wants: once F1 went to pay TV, the imperative to provide a guaranteed spectacle came with it.

I believe that these two points are inextricably linked: yes, from a British point of view, it's easy to blame Bernie and Murdoch but in the bigger picture they are symptomatic of the present nexus of business, media and sport and how sport and its spectators ultimately lose out from the failure of those with the purse-strings to understand what their 'customers' really want because they're obsessed with the bottom line.
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Yeah Max; I was a bit slack in citing arena-politics without mentioning the all-important ring-masters. What you've said pretty much completes the picture.

The essential point is that Pirelli have been under pressure to mess around in an effort to satisfy an audience.
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I'd like also to refer back to an article mentioned earlier in this thread (apologies for not quoting but it was a very large post) which compared the number of pit-stops with statistics from previous years. It seemed to me that it was presented as a defence of the criticism following the last race: that so many pit-stops were confusing. Well, whilst the number of pit-stops may previously have been very similar, they did not coincide with so many undefended overtakes through drivers nursing their cars. And it is this bewildering combination which has led to such criticism this time; not simply the number of stops.

Anyway, too much of either cheapens the show and reduces the relevance of overtaking. Toughen up the tyres and reduce the number of pit-stops. That way we'll get better racing which is also easier to follow.
 
I don't mind if drivers nurse their tyres, it's part of a racing strategy, it's when they don't really have the option of pushing them thats ruining the 'racing'. It seems the only way to get anything out of the tyres is to nurse them for almost a whole race regardless of tyre compound choice if you've made it to Q3
 
Fernando Alonso reckons Red Bull's criticism of the Pirelli Formula 1 tyres are simply the result of it not being able to handle defeat well.

When asked to respond to recent complaints about the F1 format, which included Red Bull owner Dietrich Mateschitz saying F1 was 'nothing to do with racing anymore', Alonso said: "It's more a question for them, they made those comments.

"Barcelona was a good race, not so good for some of our competitors. Some of these competitors claim they have a super car but the last three pole positions were for another car when the tyres are new.

"When you win too easily for some years, it's difficult to lose some races."
 
An interesting story from 2009 which I had completely forgotten about. Hows times haven't changed ;)

Fernando Alonso hits out at F1 tyre supplier Bridgestone

"I don't know if Bridgestone made the decision or the FIA, but they have to reconsider this type of decision because we look ridiculous on television and we look ridiculous for the spectators, and it is a joke to be in front of TV six seconds slower.
"We will need to change the tyres after five or six laps, is our calculation, because this track is harder than Melbourne and there we only did eight or nine laps.
"Like this it looks more spectacular - the difference in the speed. I don't know... I'm very worried about this and I'm very sad about this, because we look strange in front of people."

Sounds familiar <ok>
 
http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2010/9/11323.html

Although previously famed for his ability to get the most out of tyres, one of the major stumbling blocks for Schumacher this season has been Bridgestone&#8217;s 2010-spec rubber. Although Brawn admits the 91-time Grand Prix winner&#8217;s driving style does not suit this year&#8217;s Bridgestones, he believes the change to new tyre supplier, Pirelli, next season could help matters.



http://www.auto123.com/en/racing-ne...with-the-bridgestones-2010-tyres?artid=120253

Felipe Massa said:
It has little to do with racing when you are so dependent on the tyres
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Pirelli threatens to pull out of Formula 1 over 2014 contract

Pirelli has warned teams that it will pull out of Formula 1 at the end of the year unless it gets an answer soon on whether they want a fresh contract from 2014.

Talks between the Italian tyre manufacturer and the teams about a new deal have stalled in recent weeks, and Pirelli says time is running out on it being able to produce tyres in time to be fully ready for the new 2014 regulations.

Paul Hembery, Pirelli's motorsport director, said in Monaco on Thursday that F1 was facing an 'extremely serious' situation, and that if the matter was not resolved very quickly then his company would find it impossible to make new tyres in time.

"Apparently on September 1, we are meant to tell them [the teams] everything that they need to know with the tyres for next season, but now we are in mid-May," he explained.

"You can imagine how ludicrous that is when we have not got contracts in place.

"Maybe we won't be here..."
 
Maybe another tyre war is the way forward. This has been utterly farcical. We have a sole supplier, who don't have a car to test tyres on, or a contract for next year, who are being asked to deliberately design bad tyres which also happen to be dangerous.
 
AbsolutelyGlorious said:
Maybe another tyre war is the way forward. This has been utterly farcical. We have a sole supplier, who don't have a car to test tyres on, or a contract for next year, who are being asked to deliberately design bad tyres which also happen to be dangerous.
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It is becoming farcical but, unless Pirelli are being disingenuous and/or the FIA are negotiating elsewhere, how could any other manufacturer come in for next year?
 
Yeah, surely any other manufacturer is going to have the same issues, and are going to be even further behind Pirelli, as at least Pirelli have the staff, facilities and knowledge in place for F1 tyres.
 
Perhaps Pirelli are sick of being attacked for fulfilling their brief and have decided to hit back.
 
MaxWhiplash said:
Bumson investigates with a load of secondhand quotes and some interesting stuff from Gary Anderson...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/22654575
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My favourite line?

It is very hard to find someone who does not - or might not - have an agenda. So I went to find Jenson Button, an intelligent and honest man whose McLaren team are not in title contention this season.
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Classic Benson taking an opinion and presenting it as fact. Utter garbage.
 
StoneRosesRam said:
My favourite line?

It is very hard to find someone who does not - or might not - have an agenda. So I went to find Jenson Button, an intelligent and honest man whose McLaren team are not in title contention this season.
Click to expand...

Classic Benson taking an opinion and presenting it as fact. Utter garbage..
Click to expand...

<laugh> thats a BBC exclusive in the making. 'Button Pirelli Moan shocker'
 
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