Watford

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"Sportsmanship" ?

Fans cheer when a player gets sent off or they get a penalty by accident, they laugh when other sides lose...is this the sportsmanship you meant?

Its more a matter of kill or be killed in football.

As someone said if they were in relegation trouble no one would care, it is not an issue if they have acted within the rules...more a smart bit of dealing if you ask me.

Having said all that coming from Cardiff the last thing we need is Watford to do a lot better than us over the last games but if they do good luck to them.

jck
 
Andy King's Crown Jewels said:
Well its difficult to say as it hasn't happened.

But my first thought would probably be to the fans, who would basically be shafted by a rich bloke wanting to make money by using you as a youth academy. Which he is doing now, in effect, just with more success.

It needed to be stopped, because it isn't fair on other clubs and could equally be unfair on yourselves.

What if your owners had enough of you mid-season? You'd be fooked.




What has it got to do with you?

and yes, it is sour grapes. If they get promoted then they will have done for free (more or less). Which would not be fair. If stats are to be believed then their club would make a 90m profit in one season. How can that possibly be fair?
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Well that's not important. Barnsley have barely spent a penny and if they got promoted this year it would've been for free. That's not the point. If they found a way around it then fair play. It's not cheating, it's just using a method that nobody else has bothered with. Manchester United used to do it with Royal Antwerp, Hull City used to do it with North Ferriby (and to some extent a bit like we are doing with Al Ahly).... it just happens. Perhaps they don't share an owner, but the clubs have an understanding to loan players. If the opportunity is there then fair enough.

Football, as we have come to know as fans, isn't fair. It's about winning games and finishing above your rivals. If everything was fair and nice nobody would have anything to discuss. You are where you are in the league because you haven't won enough games. In a season where pretty much every Leicester fan I met told me how you'd be title contenders, you seem to have fallen away at a crucial time. Maybe you could link up with the best team in Thailand and get some loans in from there? They're ranked 135th, they must have at least one good player?

How about this guy?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teerasil_Dangda
 
Tommytiger said:
So Watford will now go into a downward spiral because they lost a game? We've lost three out of our last five, so by that logic we are going to plummet now!

If this season has taught us anything, its that you cannot predict a result. Don't assume we will march on to victory based on how our opponents do, just focus on our results and let our football do the talking.
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You assume to much. Watford have not lost just one game and my opinion on them is based on what reports they are getting. Watford lost there last 2 games and were lucky to beat the Wendies before that so it could have been 3 losses on the bounce. I think that they will drop from 3rd but cling onto 6th, maybe 5th at the expense of Lesta. Brighton i think will take the Foxes play-off spots.
 
jck200 said:
"Sportsmanship" ?

Fans cheer when a player gets sent off or they get a penalty by accident, they laugh when other sides lose...is this the sportsmanship you meant?

Its more a matter of kill or be killed in football.

As someone said if they were in relegation trouble no one would care, it is not an issue if they have acted within the rules...more a smart bit of dealing if you ask me.

Having said all that coming from Cardiff the last thing we need is Watford to do a lot better than us over the last games but if they do good luck to them.

jck
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If you don't understand the meaning of sportsmanship then I feel sorry for you.

Ok we al know how important winning is and we're all guilty of hypocrisy when we criticise the actions of rival players and ignore the same things when our own players do it.

BUT success only deserves respect when neither team is unfairly handicapped and success gained by a club that consciously engineers an unfair advantage can only be described as bad sportsmanship or cheating.
 
Tommytiger said:
Well that's not important. Barnsley have barely spent a penny and if they got promoted this year it would've been for free. That's not the point. If they found a way around it then fair play. It's not cheating, it's just using a method that nobody else has bothered with. Manchester United used to do it with Royal Antwerp, Hull City used to do it with North Ferriby (and to some extent a bit like we are doing with Al Ahly).... it just happens. Perhaps they don't share an owner, but the clubs have an understanding to loan players. If the opportunity is there then fair enough.

Football, as we have come to know as fans, isn't fair. It's about winning games and finishing above your rivals. If everything was fair and nice nobody would have anything to discuss. You are where you are in the league because you haven't won enough games. In a season where pretty much every Leicester fan I met told me how you'd be title contenders, you seem to have fallen away at a crucial time. Maybe you could link up with the best team in Thailand and get some loans in from there? They're ranked 135th, they must have at least one good player?

How about this guy?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teerasil_Dangda
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What were Barnsley's chances of promotion pre-season. Next to nothing.
What would Watford's chances of promotion have been without Udinese/Granada owners? Next to nothing.

You can't argue they havn't had a significant, unfair boost.

I have no qualms with the likes of yourselves and Al Ahlylyly. That happens in football and it doesn't involve people owning multiple clubs, which should be against rules and will be.

I know the game isn't fair, but there must be a line where it goes above and beyond ridiculous and in my opinion, this is.
 
I guess if it suits your agenda, fine... You decide what rules suit your idea of the game, and others decide theirs. I can moan about foreign owners coming in spending millions and millions gambling on their clubs future is not in the spirit of the game. Maybe they should scrap the loan system completely... Why should other teams develop bigger teams players in the first place, but then while we are at it, lets ban clubs buying players with money that team hasn't earned. Maybe when loaning a player, the team loaning them has to pay 100% of the wage. Maybe there should be a salary cap.... Capped at what the poorest team can afford. Why should some teams benefit just because they were lucky to have a rich owner... Every team can have a moan about another team

We are all teams playing within the current rules... And I'd say we are in a fine position when ffp rules come in. If our owners leave, we will be just fine. How many other teams can really say that?
 
SalisburyKev said:
I guess if it suits your agenda, fine... You decide what rules suit your idea of the game, and others decide theirs. I can moan about foreign owners coming in spending millions and millions gambling on their clubs future is not in the spirit of the game. Maybe they should scrap the loan system completely... Why should other teams develop bigger teams players in the first place, but then while we are at it, lets ban clubs buying players with money that team hasn't earned. Maybe when loaning a player, the team loaning them has to pay 100% of the wage. Maybe there should be a salary cap.... Capped at what the poorest team can afford. Why should some teams benefit just because they were lucky to have a rich owner... Every team can have a moan about another team

We are all teams playing within the current rules... And I'd say we are in a fine position when ffp rules come in. If our owners leave, we will be just fine. How many other teams can really say that?
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Your post is the typical reaction of someone who can't justify their own argument so instead they strike out in every other direction in the hope of creating a smokescreen.
Football is full of inequalities and quite a few of them need consideration and possible changes, but this thread is specifically about the Watford situation and as far as I can see you haven't offered one good reason why your club is justified in gaining an unfair advantage except that there's a loophole in the laws.
A loophole isn't a rule. There is no rule saying you can have a team full of foreign loanees, there is simply an oversight in the existing rules where the rightful rule that you can only play 5 loanees (domestic or foreign) has been missed out. So yes technically Watford CAN and DO exploit this error, however any suggestion that this isn't cheating is equivalent to saying "It's not stealing unless you get caught."
 
I would compare what Watford are doing to tax avoidance. We all know that it is wrong to do it, but it is not breaking any rules and as long as people can benefit from it they will look to exploit these loopholes. I definitely disagree with what they have done and hope that they are not promoted this year and the problems with the rules are sorted out so that they will be facing a much more similar task to everybody else fighting to go up.
 
Andy King's Crown Jewels said:
You're right, it's not 'A' football forum. It's a sports forum. In which there is a football sub section, in which there is a 'Championship' sub section and in which there is a 'Hull City' sub section. Honestly, you signed up to a multi-club forum. Don't get pissy when someone from another club comes over FFS <laugh>

I've come on here to give my opinion on Watford. The same right you have.
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So why were you saying "what's it got to do with you"? You've just shot yourself in the arse you half wit.
 
TygerTyger said:
So why were you saying "what's it got to do with you"? You've just shot yourself in the arse you half wit.
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He randomly brought Hull into the argument. I said 'whats it got to do with you'. ****ing hell, no rocket science involved <doh>

Happy Clapper said:
Not really no, we were doing our own business, and seemingly better, along with Watford than Nige did for you, which is why I suspect I can smell sour grapes from you.
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Craig in Nottingham said:
Your post is the typical reaction of someone who can't justify their own argument so instead they strike out in every other direction in the hope of creating a smokescreen.
Football is full of inequalities and quite a few of them need consideration and possible changes, but this thread is specifically about the Watford situation and as far as I can see you haven't offered one good reason why your club is justified in gaining an unfair advantage except that there's a loophole in the laws.
A loophole isn't a rule. There is no rule saying you can have a team full of foreign loanees, there is simply an oversight in the existing rules where the rightful rule that you can only play 5 loanees (domestic or foreign) has been missed out. So yes technically Watford CAN and DO exploit this error, however any suggestion that this isn't cheating is equivalent to saying "It's not stealing unless you get caught."
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No, the rule is that foreign loans are classed as transfers, so it is not a loophole, it is a rule! So in essence, we can sign as many players on a 1 year 'transfer' as we want (as can any team), as long as they are from a foreign club. This rule is available to everyone. You are welcome to go to Real Madrid, Barcelona et al, and ask if you can transfer in some players for a year. It's just no one has used this rule in the way we have before!

It's not our fault that the authorities created this rule, but is just another one they will look at changing. Like the 'Financial Fair Play' rules. With this rule coming in, do you agree that anyone who has done something beyond these rules are not 'playing fair'? The answer is in the title of the new rule.

And if you want to be pedantic... this thread was actually about us escaping a points deduction and fine which has absolutely nothing to do with our new owners (who acted brilliantly when they found out about what our previous owner had done) or the players we signed.
 
The laws of football were written by a man from Hull, Mr Ebeneezer Cobb Morley. We gave football to the world.

The rules/laws were written for the benefit of gentlemen, so including moral codes wasn't seen as necessary as gentlemen would play to the spirit of the rules.

It's that gentlemanly spirit that's lacking on so many areas of football these days. Pointing out specific letters of the law misses the fundamental ethos that should underpin the game.
 
Andy King's Crown Jewels said:
He randomly brought Hull into the argument. I said 'whats it got to do with you'. ****ing hell, no rocket science involved <doh>
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Oh yeah, silly me. It's a post on the Hull board, by "Tigress", So Hull is brought randomly into the argument. You Berk. The only random interference was you shoving your nose in. We're happy on here to discus all matters football, with all fans from any team, but don't come on our board and tell us it's none of our business. What next? You going to the Vatican to tell the Pope to keep his nose out of Catholicism?

Surely even you can see the irony of your position. Man up and accept for once you were wrong and made a stupid comment. We'd respect you more if you did.
 
AK I've previously defended your ability to post on our forum, but I'm starting to see why you attract the attention you do. If that's your aim, fine, every forum has its trolls, but I honestly thought better of you.
 
I think some City fans are over-reacting to AKCJ. He isn't particularly WUM'ing, he just happens to come over here to voice his opinion on a matter that we're talking about. I go over to the Leicester board, Leeds board and Millwall board too, they don't complain.

When you sign up to Not606, you sign up to a Multi-Club Forum which means people from other boards can post on here and vice versa. Stop getting your knickers in a twist and talk to him normally. You'll find it's a lot easier than arguing and creating pointless pissing contests.
 
SalisburyKev said:
No, the rule is that foreign loans are classed as transfers, so it is not a loophole, it is a rule! So in essence, we can sign as many players on a 1 year 'transfer' as we want (as can any team), as long as they are from a foreign club. This rule is available to everyone. You are welcome to go to Real Madrid, Barcelona et al, and ask if you can transfer in some players for a year. It's just no one has used this rule in the way we have before!

It's not our fault that the authorities created this rule, but is just another one they will look at changing. Like the 'Financial Fair Play' rules. With this rule coming in, do you agree that anyone who has done something beyond these rules are not 'playing fair'? The answer is in the title of the new rule.

And if you want to be pedantic... this thread was actually about us escaping a points deduction and fine which has absolutely nothing to do with our new owners (who acted brilliantly when they found out about what our previous owner had done) or the players we signed.
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To be fair I think you're the one being pedantic. The issue that concerns supporters and the football authorities is that the restrictions on domestic loans don't also apply to foreign ones. That is the loophole which allows Watford to create an unfair advantage for themselves and it is the one that will soon be closed. The issue of how foreign loans are classified may affect this or may not but that is only a side issue.

You keep trying to divert the focus of the discussion to other areas, but if you will excuse me I prefer to stick to the point. You say "It's not our fault that the authorities created this rule", but it is Watford's fault that they have employed a complete transfer strategy to abuse an oversight in the rules. It might not be my fault that my neighbours went out and left their front door open, but does that entitle me to walk in and nick their TV? The answer is no and as DMD rather quaintly puts it; the game was created for gentlemen and unfortunately Watford FC and the fans who support this cheating strategy don't fit into that category.
 
Craig, do you also take issue with Ipswich doing the same or is it ok because they are not challenging for promotion? The last I heard Ipswich had something like 8 loan players in their matchday squad, made up of domestic loans and foreign ones.

Watford and Ipswich are doing precisely what they are allowed to do by the rules. If anyone is to blame it is the people who drafted the rules. What do you expect Watford and other clubs to do, not utilise the foreign loan system because you dont like it, and other clubs dont utilise it?

Your burglary analysis is wide of the mark. That is illegal whether or not the front door was left open or not.
 
Watford are taking advantage of the fact that their owner has another club, we are taking advantage of the fact that our owner was willing to bung in £60m.

We're in no position to criticise, everyone's playing by the same rules, just some are in a position to take better advantage of those rules.
 
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