Phil Brown

[Davies Headband]

I still think we could have stayed up under Browny.

But the reaction from some on here, lucky season and a half? Give over, have you forgotten how bad we were under Parkinson? We'd have spent our next season in League One, not getting promoted to the Premier League if Brown didn't come in.

 

[PLT]

Whether you like him or not, you have to give him credit for getting us up there and that great start to the first season. If you're going to blame our later shortcomings on him then you have to credit him when it goes well. Luck doesn't come into it over that scale. It's not like we won games with a dodgy penalty every week. We went away to top teams and actually outscored them rather than just defending.

Personally I don't think the fact we tailed off and eventually got relegated was a particularly bad result. Obviously it'd have been much better to stay up but for a club of our size, never been there before, no pulling power, no actual money (although the temptation to pretend we had some is still costing us now) we had no right to stay in the PL at all and bemoaning that we only lasted one season, precisely one more than anyone expected, is ungrateful and harsh imo. We were never going to stay there forever without building first.

If we get promoted this summer we need to learn from it; don't overspend, and don't get carried away. If we lose every match in the PL it will still be a result because we will come down a much bigger club than we went up.

 

[look_back_in_amber]

He talks too much.
He thinks he is far, far better than he is.
He is a **** man-manager
He must be bigger than all others in the club
He knows coaching
He does not understand tactics
Fat Sam does
No one trusts him
We won him a promotion to the PL on his CV
He lost us the PL

The man's a knob.

Amen to that!

 

[bum_chinned_crab]

Amen to that!

Well, all of it except the second to last one.

 

[look_back_in_amber]

I still think we could have stayed up under Browny.

.

 

[look_back_in_amber]

Well, all of it except the second to last one.

Nope, I'd also wholeheartedly include that one.

Anyone that thinks that Brown's previous acts, prior to being put on gardening leave, didn't play a large part in our relegation is living in dreamland, and to blame it on AP's decision of appointing Shrek is just a convenient way of avoiding the obvious.

Unbelievable Jeff!

 

[Disco Dancing Elmo]

It's best not to get involved in this as half respect Browny, half hate him.

I for one, thank him for getting us into the EPL and keeping us up when nobody gave us a chance. As a young supporter, I witnessed the Great Escape (at five years old), back-to-back Promotions, and then Promotion through Wembley to the Premier League. That in itself is a piece of history that I will forever remember.

Browny allowed the big time to get to him whilst we were up there. He got complacent and thought he was safe after that first run of results. The Man City affair changed it all. We can't comment on is tactical awareness/man-management because no player (to my knowing) came out and said that he was poor in any of them respects. From what I saw, I think Man City and the Marlon King situation lost him the dressing room and it was a downwards sloap from then on.

Some of his signings were exremely questionable (Manucho... WTF? - although his winner at Fulham probably kept us in the League) but he DID bring in Dean Windass, brought Nick Barmby back into the side after Parkinson left him in the Wildernesss, kept us up whilst Leeds went down and got us up the next year. Putting him on Gardening Leave with something like 9/10 games to go to replace him with Dowie was idiotic IMO. They should have let him take us down rather than appoint that moron.

If Browny had indeed lost the dressing room, halfway through the 2nd Season, around Christmas time, we should have replaced him in order for the new manager to get things straight and bring in some new players.

I feel sorry for Browny, because he was the victim of his own downfall and he needs to get himself a new Manager job somewhere and get back on track.

 

[bum_chinned_crab]

Nope, I'd also wholeheartedly include that one.

Anyone that thinks that Brown's previous acts, prior to being put on gardening leave, didn't play a large part in our relegation is living in dreamland, and to blame it on AP's decision of appointing Shrek is just a convenient way of avoiding the obvious.

Unbelievable Jeff!

Im not 'blaming' anyone or disputing that Brown put us in a position that made relegation likely. Nor am I disputing that 'he didnt play a alrge part in our relegation'. However it is 100% indisputable cast-iron FACT not opinion nor anyhting to do with dreamland or indeed avoiding the obvious but Brown did not relegate us.

 

[PLT]

It's best not to get involved in this as half respect Browny, half hate him.

I for one, thank him for getting us into the EPL and keeping us up when nobody gave us a chance. As a young supporter, I witnessed the Great Escape (at five years old), back-to-back Promotions, and then Promotion through Wembley to the Premier League. That in itself is a piece of history that I will forever remember.

Browny allowed the big time to get to him whilst we were up there. He got complacent and thought he was safe after that first run of results. The Man City affair changed it all. We can't comment on is tactical awareness/man-management because no player (to my knowing) came out and said that he was poor in any of them respects. From what I saw, I think Man City and the Marlon King situation lost him the dressing room and it was a downwards sloap from then on.

Some of his signings were exremely questionable (Manucho... WTF? - although his winner at Fulham probably kept us in the League) but he DID bring in Dean Windass, brought Nick Barmby back into the side after Parkinson left him in the Wildernesss, kept us up whilst Leeds went down and got us up the next year. Putting him on Gardening Leave with something like 9/10 games to go to replace him with Dowie was idiotic IMO. They should have let him take us down rather than appoint that moron.

If Browny had indeed lost the dressing room, halfway through the 2nd Season, around Christmas time, we should have replaced him in order for the new manager to get things straight and bring in some new players.

I feel sorry for Browny, because he was the victim of his own downfall and he needs to get himself a new Manager job somewhere and get back on track.

A few points from that:

The 'Man City affair' is a total red herring. Nothing more than media nonsense.

You're spot on about people pulling apart his tactical ability, man-management etc. How could we possibly know/understand?

The Marlon King situation cost us in the respect that we lost a great striker.

Manucho was an exciting signing at the time. The thing is at City, whenever we get a striker play a handful of games on loan, they always become **** afterwards, even though hardly anyone observes it at the time. Not saying Manucho was good but he wasn't a total donkey either. Just another average man up front not achieving anything, like Proschwitz or Simpson lately.

He wouldn't have been sacked if it wasn't for the financial situation and AP suggested as much at the time. We simply couldn't afford relegation, there were no Allams back then to save us. We were looking like going down and needed to stay up. I think AP would accept that Dowie was a failure but his hand was forced, he had to try something to keep us up, new managers often have that magic effect on players but it didn't happen. I'm sure if the financial position wasn't so bad, PB would have been allowed to finish what he started and continue building in the Championship if necessary. The fact that we got relegated and saved by the Allams has been a good thing in the long-run, imagine how much worse the finances could have got if we left it another year or two?

 

[Murdoc]

It's best not to get involved in this as half respect Browny, half hate him.

I for one, thank him for getting us into the EPL and keeping us up when nobody gave us a chance. As a young supporter, I witnessed the Great Escape (at five years old), back-to-back Promotions, and then Promotion through Wembley to the Premier League. That in itself is a piece of history that I will forever remember.

Browny allowed the big time to get to him whilst we were up there. He got complacent and thought he was safe after that first run of results. The Man City affair changed it all. We can't comment on is tactical awareness/man-management because no player (to my knowing) came out and said that he was poor in any of them respects. From what I saw, I think Man City and the Marlon King situation lost him the dressing room and it was a downwards sloap from then on.

Some of his signings were exremely questionable (Manucho... WTF? - although his winner at Fulham probably kept us in the League) but he DID bring in Dean Windass, brought Nick Barmby back into the side after Parkinson left him in the Wildernesss, kept us up whilst Leeds went down and got us up the next year. Putting him on Gardening Leave with something like 9/10 games to go to replace him with Dowie was idiotic IMO. They should have let him take us down rather than appoint that moron.

If Browny had indeed lost the dressing room, halfway through the 2nd Season, around Christmas time, we should have replaced him in order for the new manager to get things straight and bring in some new players.

I feel sorry for Browny, because he was the victim of his own downfall and he needs to get himself a new Manager job somewhere and get back on track.

Brilliant post. And by one of the youngest members of the board too.
Nobody can question Browns tactical or management styles considering hat he achieved for us.

I'm sure he has a lot of regrets and if he could go back in time, he'd do it differently.

Dowie condemned us to relegation.

 

[bum_chinned_crab]

A few points from that:

The 'Man City affair' is a total red herring. Nothing more than media nonsense.

It's not unfortunately. Everyone publicly said it wasnt important because that's what you have to say at times like that but I know a few of the players from that time and they never looked at Phil in the same way again. We were in our first season in the top flight, I think from memory we were unbeaten away from home until that day WHICH WAS BOXING DAY - an almost unheard of feat - and yet he chose to publicly humiliate them in front of the world. A lot of the team lost all respect for him that day and never forgave him.

 

[PLT]

It's not unfortunately. Everyone publicly said it wasnt important because that's what you have to say at times like that but I know a few of the players from that time and they never looked at Phil in the same way again. We were in our first season in the top flight, I think from memory we were unbeaten away from home until that day WHICH WAS BOXING DAY - an almost unheard of feat - and yet he chose to publicly humiliate them in front of the world. A lot of the team lost all respect for him that day and never forgave him.

Well then they're jessies. It worked though didn't it? They went and drew the second half and then improved considerably for the next game at home to Villa.

It's yet another one of those things that no one minded at the time. People were appluading it in the away end and only when they got home and saw MOTD and realised we were supposed to think it was a bad thing they changed their minds.

 

[Fez]

Im sure some people forget who was in charge when we were relegated.

Grow up; it was Brown who did the damage. We were incredibly fortunate the first season ffs.

I do think sacking him was a mistake, but not as big as employing the muppet Dowie.

 

[PLT]

Grow up; it was Brown who did the damage. We were incredibly fortunate the first season ffs.

I do think sacking him was a mistake, but not as big as employing the muppet Dowie.

Why were we fortunate? We got some shoddy refereeing decisions against us that year? Draws at Liverpool and Stoke should have been wins but for dodgy goals against us. Staying up by the skin of your teeth isn't lucky. It's being better than 3 other teams and it was exactly what we set out to do when everyone thought we'd 'do a Derby'.

 

[andy payton's mullet]

Well then they're jessies. It worked though didn't it? They went and drew the second half and then improved considerably for the next game at home to Villa.

It's yet another one of those things that no one minded at the time. People were appluading it in the away end and only when they got home and saw MOTD and realised we were supposed to think it was a bad thing they changed their minds.

I wasn't. I was walking up the stairs to get a pint to drown my sorrows and turned round to see Browny leading the players into the corner to give his talk. I thought it was embarrassing for the club and the players. I remember thinking to myself that what he did could lose the dressing room - ridiculing the players in such a manner.

 

[look_back_in_amber]

Im not 'blaming' anyone or disputing that Brown put us in a position that made relegation likely. Nor am I disputing that 'he didnt play a alrge part in our relegation'. However it is 100% indisputable cast-iron FACT not opinion nor anyhting to do with dreamland or indeed avoiding the obvious but Brown did not relegate us.

Ok crab, I'm sure that you're not missing my point, but, just to clarify, what I'm saying is that the horrendous run that Brown took us on for the last 18 months of his reign was in no way recoverable with 9 games to go, not even by Alex Ferguson or Mourinho! No it can't be stated as a FACT, as Brown, fortunately for his CV, was sent on weeding duty! But, for me anyway, anyone that thinks that he would or could have kept us up at that point, when he'd won something like 6 out of his previous 50 games, IS living in some kind of wonderland.

So, although his name was not on the managers door at the precise point of our relegation, it was, in essence, his previous acts that relegated us.

nb. The Shrek point was not aimed at you particularly, it was aimed at the ludicrous posts that I have seen claiming that it was his fault/Adam Pearson's fault/anybody but Phil Brown's fault that we were relegated, and THAT is what I find unbelievable Jeff!

 

[andy payton's mullet]

Why were we fortunate? We got some shoddy refereeing decisions against us that year? Draws at Liverpool and Stoke should have been wins but for dodgy goals against us. Staying up by the skin of your teeth isn't lucky. It's being better than 3 other teams and it was exactly what we set out to do when everyone thought we'd 'do a Derby'.

I had a Man Utd supporting mate (surprisingly born and bred in Manchester) text me on the final day to say we were lucky to stay up. I pointed out that we stayed up because we got more points than 3 other teams over the course of the season, not simply for what happened on the last day of the season.

You cannot be lucky for a whole season

 

[PLT]

I wasn't. I was walking up the stairs to get a pint to drown my sorrows and turned round to see Browny leading the players into the corner to give his talk. I thought it was embarrassing for the club and the players. I remember thinking to myself that what he did could lose the dressing room - ridiculing the players in such a manner.

I think it was an over-reaction considering where we'd come from and how well we were actually doing, so I'm not completely defending it but I vividly remember people appluading it and it certainly wasn't the universally-agreed inevitable cause of downfall that people say it is now.

 

[jayc89]

Ok crab, I'm sure that you're not missing my point, but, just to clarify, what I'm saying is that the horrendous run that Brown took us on for the last 18 months of his reign was in no way recoverable with 9 games to go, not even by Alex Ferguson or Mourinho! No it can't be stated as a FACT, as Brown, fortunately for his CV, was sent on weeding duty! But, for me anyway, anyone that thinks that he would or could have kept us up at that point, when he'd won something like 6 out of his previous 50 games, IS living in some kind of wonderland.

So, although his name was not on the managers door at the precise point of our relegation, it was, in essence, his previous acts that relegated us.

nb. The Shrek point was not aimed at you particularly, it was aimed at the ludicrous posts that I have seen claiming that it was his fault/Adam Pearson's fault/anybody but Phil Brown's fault that we were relegated, and THAT is what I find unbelievable Jeff!

His last match, Arsenal at home, was quite a big turning point for me. The lads showed enough fight (for the relegation battle and the manager) but when Boaz spilt that shot for Bendtner to score the winner. You could see heads had gone. PB had to go.

 

[Fez]

Well, all of it except the second to last one.

You're (or maybe your for you) behaving like a child. If you wish to be pedantic then read that I wrote 'He lost us the PL' I did not say he got us relegated. He did more than anyone else to put us into the position of relegation. Pearson and Dowie did the rest.

Have an original thought of your own, ffs.