Tuesday 22nd Daily Thread

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Its not just the all weather oddy, I know its rife on there, but it goes on in flat turf racing and jump racing, probably more so in Ireland. That Tennis Cap race the other day is a perfect example.

Basically, the only races you can be confident everyone is trying is Group 1s and the major festivals.
 
Yip that Faffa i tipped up today is one of the most blatant non triers i have ever witnessed. But unfortunately thats the game, we all know this exists, the knife just goes a little deeper when youve done your cash. The jockey made a p*** poor attempt at the con, how silly did he look...prat! 10 days a f***** joke!

In this game its so important to move on so i will dwell no further.
 
Just watched that Faffa race <doh>

I agree connections should be punished too, the jockey obviously didn't dream that up himself.

In my view fewer races = more prize money per race = less reason to try and not win

If you look at the big meetings every Saturday you won't see any non-triers. It's the low graded stuff that attracts the scoundrels
 
Good points lads.

Fiddling is tolerated and encouraged to a large degree.Look at maiden races throughout the year where horses are given a school and the likes of Mick Fitz et al compliment jockeys on the kind introduction they have been given and not "knocked about"....WTF!!

Paul Webber introduced one such newcomer in a bumper at Lingfield last week where the always hapless Elsworth made absolutely no effort to optimise his finishing positon.

This is something that has annoyed me for eon's and why I don't touch these events.

The rules of racing are simple and state that every individual runner must be ridden to maximise it's finishing position.

How simple is that?...correct....very....There is no proviso or caveats or indeed suspension of the fundamental rules for maiden or newcomer events although one could be forgiven for thinking so.

The stewards let connections away with this much too often and although Matt Chapman is a plank he is the only journo who challenges cheating.

Re the big festivals Eddie,the handling of Son Of Flicka last year was frankly nauseating...never tried with all year to drop his mark,gambled on at the festival and wins because Donald McCain chose to cheat and not run his horse on it's merits throughout the year.

Guess what,they're doing it again in broad ****ing daylight with an almost identical non trying agenda this year...tailed off for the second year in a row in the Lanzarote in it's final prep run after a string of schools to reduce it's mark.

Disgraceful but tolerated,encouraged and lauded when the target of the cheating is achieved.

McCain really should be asked to explain this behaviour...but he won't be.
 
Ardent1965 said:
Yip that Faffa i tipped up today is one of the most blatant non triers i have ever witnessed. But unfortunately thats the game, we all know this exists, the knife just goes a little deeper when youve done your cash. The jockey made a p*** poor attempt at the con, how silly did he look...prat! 10 days a f***** joke!

In this game its so important to move on so i will dwell no further.
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The jockey should be suspended indefinitely on health and safety grounds alone since he wasn't in control of his mount although everyone knows it was Easterby who was at fault here...I haven't seen the race so can't comment anymore on it.
 
Aye the big names get away with murder, Mark Johnston, always trying, expect his horses either win or are absolutely tailed off, usually within a couple of days.

SIR Mark Prescott, runs all his 2 milers over 6f and 7f on the all weather, god forbid he should start them out at a suitable trip.
 
The Master of Glesga said:
Aye the big names get away with murder, Mark Johnston, always trying, expect his horses either win or are absolutely tailed off, usually within a couple of days.

SIR Mark Prescott, runs all his 2 milers over 6f and 7f on the all weather, god forbid he should start them out at a suitable trip.
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SMP is a ****ing joke. Every handicap debutant he ups in trip gets backed off the boards. He doesnt let his horses show any true ability in maidens. Absolute pisstake.
 
The Master of Glesga said:
Aye the big names get away with murder, Mark Johnston, always trying, expect his horses either win or are absolutely tailed off, usually within a couple of days.

SIR Mark Prescott, runs all his 2 milers over 6f and 7f on the all weather, god forbid he should start them out at a suitable trip.
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SMP is a ****ing joke. Every handicap debutant he ups in trip gets backed off the boards. He doesnt let his horses show any true ability in maidens. Absolute pisstake.
 
Was it really a non trier? Surely it could just have been a really **** ride?

I have watched it, and it looks really bad because there are only four horses, they went a fair pace and you probably will find the others were tiring and the horse was coming on under the dodgy ride.


I agree with the ban, and I must say it was no Casela Park.
 
Just had a quick read. This is precisely why, unless you are in the know, it's unwise to bet in races where the prize money is not big enough to ensure all horses (other than pacemakers) are out to win. Read that in a book years ago, but it makes sense.
 
NassauBoard said:
Was it really a non trier? Surely it could just have been a really **** ride?

I have watched it, and it looks really bad because there are only four horses, they went a fair pace and you probably will find the others were tiring and the horse was coming on under the dodgy ride.


I agree with the ban, and I must say it was no Casela Park.
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<doh> He takes a heavy tug at the the start, then stop start riding which is not helpful for the horse, got to them travelling well, had a huge gap to go through, tugs right to put the horse in behind Sewn Up, that drifts left, has to act like hes going for it, absolutely pitiful effort to ride a finish, waves the stick twice. It was as blatant as it gets, the horse got layed for serious money and his job was to make sure it didnt win.

Surely the pitiful excuse about short notice wasting is enough? Even if you didnt know the stable are well known for it. You should be sitting in the ATR studio with Boyce.

He was doing 8st 7 today, lowest he has done in the last 12 months is 8st 4, and it was a 6f race in which the horse travelled well most of the way, would have been all the way but for his antics at the start, not as if he was pushing all the way on a slow horse in a 2 mile race.
 
The Master of Glesga said:
<doh> He takes a heavy tug at the the start, then stop start riding which is not helpful for the horse, got to them travelling well, had a huge gap to go through, tugs right to put the horse in behind Sewn Up, that drifts left, has to act like hes going for it, absolutely pitiful effort to ride a finish, waves the stick twice. It was as blatant as it gets, the horse got layed for serious money and his job was to make sure it didnt win.

Surely the pitiful excuse about short notice wasting is enough? Even if you didnt know the stable are well known for it. You should be sitting in the ATR studio with Boyce.

He was doing 8st 7 today, lowest he has done in the last 12 months is 8st 4, and it was a 6f race in which the horse travelled well most of the way, would have been all the way but for his antics at the start, not as if he was pushing all the way on a slow horse in a 2 mile race.
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Do enlighten me on what percentage of the market was on him and how much money was further lined up to be layed before the race.

To me, it was a shocking ride, on a poor horse, in a small field. You get as bad rides at every meeting in the season, and doesn't it say a lot about the pace of the race that the winner is better over 2 furlongs further and just outstayed them?

Yes it was poor, and probably right to give him 10 days off, but I don't buy this complete non-triers thing, it would be blatantly obvious on a card like that with just four runners if they were laying the ass off it.
 
Just watch its run from the 29th december, he got tore right into all the way up the straight, gave it at least 6 belts of the whip, and compare it to today.

I dont have the figures, I wasnt particularly intersted in the race so wasnt watching the market as it happened, I do know that he was challenging Sewn Up for favouritism at 7/4 and went off 7/2, so it was pretty obvious that they were laying it. Considering he was strongly fancied by many for the race and the fact that there would be more in these markets than normal because its only the all weather that is on, id say it was a right few quid.
 
The Master of Glesga said:
Just watch its run from the 29th december, he got tore right into all the way up the straight, gave it at least 6 belts of the whip, and compare it to today.
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Six whips against two no hopers, and when running from the front. Different to trying to deliver a horse from behind. Do show me how much was laid on him, I would love to see this theory have some legs.
 
I would also mention Nass, that the protagonists here are hardly Paul Newman and Robert Redford in The Sting. If they can clear a grand on the race they are probably well happy. They probably laid only relativley small amounts to avoid becoming obvious. Add that to the jockey's tale of 3 days in the sauna and only a cucumber sandwich and you can (with a more skilled jockey than today) probably get away with it 4 or 5 days a week, at such a level where form has little or no meaning.
 
OddDog said:
I would also mention Nass, that the protagonists here are hardly Paul Newman and Robert Redford in The Sting. If they can clear a grand on the race they are probably well happy. They probably laid only relativley small amounts to avoid becoming obvious. Add that to the jockey's tale of 3 days in the sauna and only a cucumber sandwich and you can (with a more skilled jockey than today) probably get away with it 4 or 5 days a week, at such a level where form has little or no meaning.
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It doesn't make sense though, if they were non trying they wouldn't do it so blatantly in a four runner race. Perhaps the horse looked shocking in the ring, perhaps the other yards fancied theirs, or perhaps someone had a tenner on one of the others and the odds changed rapidly.
 
NassauBoard said:
It doesn't make sense though, if they were non trying they wouldn't do it so blatantly in a four runner race. Perhaps the horse looked shocking in the ring, perhaps the other yards fancied theirs, or perhaps someone had a tenner on one of the others and the odds changed rapidly.
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It happens everyday, they get away with it, thats why they are so blatant, look what he got for today, a slap on the wrist.

If you dont know this is going on you are naive.

So easy to get a horse beat, why try for the poor prize money when you can make 5 times that by tugging one. Crooks

If you cant see that today then you must think a horse has never been stopped.
 
The Master of Glesga said:
It happens everyday, they get away with it, thats why they are so blatant, look what he got for today, a slap on the wrist.

If you dont know this is going on you are naive.
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Of course it is going on, but once again, what is to say that isn't just a totally **** ride (something else which goes on everyday)

What should happen is that Betfair and the BHA should share their knowledge on the race, if it shows anything then the book should be thrown at the lot of them. The stewards could only go on what they saw without the knowledge of the exchange and made a judgement, that he was in breach of the rules and got 10 days for it.

Until you have real proof of the laying that is being accused, you can't go throwing books at people, we would end up with four horses running a day.
 
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