The supporters will be feeling the cost of this even before the beginning of next season IF we win promotion! It will not be anything just to do with the zimmer frames clogging the corridor's of Priestfield. But watch When we are all hit in the pocket, those that are happy now may suddenly change voice, when they cannot afford to watch Gills play the League One football they so seek and attendances drop again for the comfort of armchair Pampers League TV. Blinkered present leads to disheartened future.
one thing you can rest assured of is I am not Ron. I might have to start following him though (only joking)
Quite simply, Jack Payne is the best prospect this club has had since Matt Jarvis, personally I think he is our current best player, and he are letting him go on loan or for a minimal fee, I expected him to leave eventually as he has the potential to be a top player, however it should be in a year or so's time for large fee. Him leaving now will both be detrimental to the club as we are not getting the fee we should and subsequently trading new for old, and also it's too early for Jack, he won't play for palace so his confidence will be knocked and he's unlikely to reach the levels he was once at. Gutted if he goes.
Payne was fantastic three seasons ago in League 1 and it just looked a matter of time for him to develop into Premiership quality. Unfortunately since then not only has he failed to improve, he has deteriorated. His availabillity has not been good, his pace has gone and worst of all the correlation between poor team performances and Payne being in the team has become all too clear. Something needs to happen to reignite his career and a loan spell at a higher level would at least present a new challenge which might work. I hope so. At Gillingham he is slowly sliding downhill and the thought that someone will pay money for someone who cannot command a regular place in the side is just dreaming.
Don't forget Crofts was in a similar position as Payne. Who was not supposed to be good enough after being brillant in his early days went on to play for Brighton and then in Prem for Norwich. I think if Palace don't go up they will sign Payne and he will do well if he can steer clear of injuries. If they do go up they will want some more experience players for that level and Payne could still be signed but won't play much.
Bristol, we once again meet head on in a one track street. I cannot comprehend how you think jack has not been good for us in the last 3 seasons, I'm convinced you go to a handful of games and certainly never any away games. He has quite regularly, especially away from home, controlled our game nod has improved the flow of our game whenever he is playing, do you think it a coincidence that championship clubs are in for him?! On the basis of 1 good season 3 years ago, I think scouts would have been to watch him a number of times since then. Let me guess, you rate frampton in the defensive midfield position, clueless, reading your misinformed and delinquent posts infuriates me.
Yes manantanddec last time you told me that I must be Matt Fish because I told you that he had real potential was the most mobile of our defenders and would be a permanent fixture at right back next season. You retorted that he could not tackle, could not pass, could not head and was completely useless. I seem to remember you told me Weston was the only real talent in the team and was a nice bloke too. I am sure that Weston is a very nice bloke although I could not really understand why he tried to maim Fish in the first half at Barnet. Had you spoken to him before the game? Now turning to Payne, I rated him hugely 3 years ago. Who would fail to admire his performance when we trashed Swindon 5-1 in the first game of the season or the speed he showed as a stand in full back against Leeds. Nobody could outrun him then so any keen student of Gills games ought to be able to recognise the fact that he is often a yard slower than the opposition these days. I do of course miss a few away games (not many) and I only managed 100% of home games over the last 3 seasons so I could have missed the odd star performance from Jack. i did in fact say I thought he was returning to form after the Fleetwood game but he went backwards against Vale. The most disappointing aspect of his game these days is that so often his contribution on the ball is an inevitable 10 yard sideways pass. The game often calls for more ambition to switch defence into attack and sadly we do not get it from Jack any more. So far as Frampton is concerned we have a guy out of position, lacking a bit of mobility and lacking the craft for a killer pass (although he usually resists the 10 yard sideways option) so i do not favour his selection in midfield. If you talk to him though he does acknowledge he is not really equipped for that role and he does give 100% and he is a crafty pro as we have seen when he covered for Martin a few weeks back. So in summary I do apologise for my misinformed posts based on just about 80% of all games but thank you for the delinquent comment, it is so good to be able to make a few tongue in cheek provocations on not 606 and it does so stimulate the quality of discussion. Finally I must express my complete desolation at the way so many fellow supporters at Priestfield seem to have been so foolish as to think Fish (the one unable to head,pass or tackle), is a decent player. Will you be able to control your fury when he is selected player of the year?
bristol407 and Gills-Man-Ant-Dog How dare you start an arguement without my participation ? I had to interfere in your exchanges - if only to put right a scoreline from bristol407. The Swindon score was 5-0. Jackson scored a hat-trick, yet was not given m.om ! I do have other thoughts on the content of your collective posts - mainly to agree in fairly equal measures with both - but for now gentlemen - carry on.
Apologies always. I do try to support my opinions with factual evidence and my facts are almostalwaysright whatever you think of the opinion. I must congratulate you on your ability to tolerate differences of opinion in a courteous way.
Bristol - I'll start with your most concerning point of your main post, namely fish being named player of the year. I wouldn't be eating my words or suddenly rate him as a player, I never will, in my opinion he still cannot defend, pass and certainly cross, he gets around the pitch yes, but what is the use in that, he is inept at right back and if he wins player of the year it is only because he has started all of the games where others have been rotated, and no I don't agree with Allen that he should be starting. Back to Jack, how can you argue that he has not still been extremely influential in every game he has played this year? He is able to break play, has a great range of passing and switches play regularly where others would simply run into a hole, those others starting with Charlie Allen, who it is beyond my comprehension how he starts games, well apart from the obvious fact. in regards to Weston, I don't remember saying he was our best player but I did rate him and felt Hess used him incorrectly. Against Barnet, Weston came on with 20 mins to go so I'm not sure how he managed to 'maim' fish in the first half? Would you honestly vote for Matt fish as player of the year over the likes of Nelson, Barrett, Whelpdale, Weston and Burton? To name but a few.
Feeling the cost of what brb? Jack Payne going to Palace on loan? I can't see what you are getting at. PS has already stated that prices will probably go up a bit if we get promoted. But I can't for the life of me see what this has to do with this deal. Prices will go up regardless. And the "blinkered present disheartened future" thing has no credibility to me. If we stay down this year our attendances will definitely plummet. If we go up doesn't matter if prices go up, attendances will definitely rise. Until we start losing football matches again. People do not go to Gillingham every week to watch a promising youngster. They go to watch a winning team.
Well man ant. Dealing with your points in order; first Fish as player of the year. How do you measure player of the year? Certainly games played must be a major factor. Consistency of performances is a factor (I do not mean consistently bad but someone playing well regularly is more valuable to a team than someone playing very well occasionally), all round commitment must be a factor and contribution as a team member rather than as an individual must come into it. On these measures I must say that Fish is some way ahead of your alternatives. Barrett and Nelson are the strongest contenders but I think Fish probably edges it for the moment and coincidence or not, Barrett has been much poorer since his long term contract than before it. Now turning to just how good Fish is, there has been some hype this year and for the moment and we cannot forget that just 18 months ago he was a part timer at Dover so he is doing amazingly well to be a good league 2 player who could perform at league 1 without difficulty. He is of course, very similar in style to Nosworthy except that his passing is vastly superior to Nosworthy and Nos surprised many of use with the ease with which he coped in the Premiership. Your assertion that Fish cannot head, tackle or pass just does not wash. Did you see him in the last half hour at Preston where he had to play centre half and he dominated the Preston centre forward in the air. I thought of your comments as I watched! Unfortunately Fishy has stopped attacking in recent weeks possibly under team orders or maybe some loss of form and the team is paying a high price for it so at the moment he is not my favourite performer. Now about Curtis Weston. His attempts to commit GBH were at Barnet not Priestfield and something wound him up because he was never known to have much appetite for tackling. Finally, Jack Payne. I was his greatest fan 3 years ago and I expected him to be a top player by now. All your positive points I recognise but these days I only see them in glimpses. His pace has vanished, how often does he get caught in tackles or he makes foul tackles simply because he is a yard slower than he used to be. Something is wrong and he needs to be shaken out of it. He is no longer a potential star of the future, he is in the last chance saloon and going somehere like Palace might be the change of scene that makes a difference. It is no good saying he is influential on the pitch when team results so often turn adverse when Jack is in the team. It is the mirror image of team results when Kedwell is in the team and allowing memories of his performances a couple of years ago is just masking reality.
With respect I respond, although I accept this was probably the wrong thread to have made such a comment, confusing the politics of football i.e. future pricing (AGM?) within a rumour mill thread, for that I apologise. So as follows: I did not mention Jack Payne within that comment you highlight. Considering a lot of people have not had a pay rise in the last few years, any such increase would hit the family/household/personal budget. Like most season ticket holders because we attend every game within our physical means - mine being work arrangements, we have to pay somewhere in the region of £15 per game (I think it is), that price is subject to increase on overall cost on any games I miss. No incentives for us at £1, £5, £10. We don't begrudge anything that brings the fans back, however, just reading some of the posts across the board about winning ways, reality of football today, it just makes me cringe. In your own words 'They go to watch a winning team' whereas I go 'hoping my team will win' - in today's generation of technology there is a big gulf between those two statements. Therefore who is your most valuable customer. Difficult one to consider when you weigh up the positive and negatives of both scenarios but all very relevant to our current success.
I think this thread is getting a bit cumbersome and drifting away from the title of Rumours. Can't we just keep to to rumours /stories of whom we might sign, rather than all the guff thats nothing to do with it? Maybe the discussions about the players we have (interesting as they are) could be moved to a more appropriate named thread.
Brian Howard who has just left Portsmouth is looking for a new club! Played more than 300 League games mostly at Championship level!
Bristol - you know it's funny because after you got me thinking about player of the year, given Martin's squad rotation policy it was hard to choose one, but I can't think of anyone more consistent then Nelson and in my opinion he is the best keeper we have had in years. With fish, it seems that I feel as negatively about him as you do positively, so I'm sure we will agree to disagree, but that's what forums are for and I enjoy the debate to be honest. I don't remember the tackle you are talking about and Preston is typically one of just a few games I haven't been at, perhaps I should of told my sister to marry on a different day in order to see Fish dominating, I'm sure I would have enjoyed that more, but I'm glad you were thinking of me! Vinney, whilst appreciating this is a rumour thread, it see,s we don't have any, so normal conversation resumes. I'm not sure about anyone else, but this Saturday has been horrendous with minimal football on, therefore lets hope the weather clears up soon.
Sorry for the confusion brb. But your original post seemed to me to be responding to comments about the Payne/Wright deal. Unfortunately, football price rises seem to be all everyone can expect nowadays. Especially if we do actually get promoted. Still, I'm with the other poster. Lets try to get this thread back on track about transfer rumours. or maybe close this one and start a whole new thread.
