2010/11 season. A season of progress

[King Curtis]

So, the season has come to a close after a very disappointing defeat at Ashton Gate. However, once the dust settles in a few weeks and we begin to build a team for next season, i think most will look on this as a season of progress. The club's future has become much brighter after all the financial problems last summer, we're signing and looking to sign young and hungry players, hopefully matched with some experienced players. Business is done in a much more professional and low key manner and our recruitment seems second to none. Rather than looking at a season in League 1 which we feared may be the case, we can hopefully look forward to a promotion challenge in the championship next season. This for me represents how this season can be considered one of progress, and although disappointed with how things have finished there are plenty of positives to pick out from this season. Here's hoping next season can be another step forward

 

[tigercity]

the season ended in the first 20 mins at the KC vs Boro.

but yes 7/10 for the season for me.

plusses - financial situation, competent new manager (but he'll be judged more next season), some good young blood (from Man U)

negs - home form, lack of goals, attitude of players in last game

off the field - the ownership of KC following the new council in Hull, get rid of the big earners and more signings could bolster us, owning the stadium gives the club a major asset

hope - (not Akpan!), Rosenior & Stewart to come back..

 

[TONY_WARNERS_FACE.]

I'm failing to see how this season has been a success. We've finished mid-table in a poor league, filled our team with budget signings that will get us nowhere and have a manager who's proved himself to be average at best.

I'm thankful for the Allam's, but until they change the management structure the club won't progress.

 

[King Curtis]

I'm failing to see how this season has been a success. We've finished mid-table in a poor league, filled our team with budget signings that will get us nowhere and have a manager who's proved himself to be average at best.

I'm thankful for the Allam's, but until they change the management structure the club won't progress.

Notice i say season of 'progress', not success. Success would be too strong a term to use as we haven't finished in the top 6, but i feel progress represents best what we can take from this season. I wouldn't necessarily call this a poor league, ok there are some poor teams in there but at the same time there are some good teams in there, and with the exception of Middlesbrough and Ipswich the teams i expected to finish in the top 10 have done. Teams like QPR, Cradiff, Swansea, Forest etc were always ahead of us this season given that they were in much better shape from day 1, henceforth promotion was a step too far given the circumstances.

I think budget sigings is a tad harsh, the only signings i'd pick Nigel up on are Harper, Mclean and possibly Solano (Though with a view to a coaching role it might not be a bad deal given Nobby's reputation in the game). Chester, Evans, Rosenior, Fryatt, Mannone, Gerrard, Stewart, Hobbs and Simpson (2nd half of the season) improved the squad considerably, and it's not a coincidence that our upturn in form coincided with these arrivals, so your argument hold little water here.

Next season is a big one for Nigel, had we had a season like we had this year next season i'd be disappointed, but as it is, the management team are improving the squad all the time and i have every faith in them to give us a squad that will be competing at the top next season. Nigel isn't Mourinhio and the home form is disappointing and fustrating but he is a good manager and is well respected at this level. It would be unfair to judge him on pre-christmas form as he had his hands tied and we saw his worth when he started to build the squad he wanted. But like i said, we'll see next season whether Nigel is the man for the job, i fully believe that he is.

 

[originallambrettaman]

Notice i say season of 'progress', not success. Success would be too strong a term to use as we haven't finished in the top 6, but i feel progress represents best what we can take from this season. I wouldn't necessarily call this a poor league, ok there are some poor teams in there but at the same time there are some good teams in there, and with the exception of Middlesbrough and Ipswich the teams i expected to finish in the top 10 have done. Teams like QPR, Cradiff, Swansea, Forest etc were always ahead of us this season given that they were in much better shape from day 1, henceforth promotion was a step too far given the circumstances.

I think budget sigings is a tad harsh, the only signings i'd pick Nigel up on are Harper, Mclean and possibly Solano (Though with a view to a coaching role it might not be a bad deal given Nobby's reputation in the game). Chester, Evans, Rosenior, Fryatt, Mannone, Gerrard, Stewart, Hobbs and Simpson (2nd half of the season) improved the squad considerably, and it's not a coincidence that our upturn in form coincided with these arrivals, so your argument hold little water here.

Next season is a big one for Nigel, had we had a season like we had this year next season i'd be disappointed, but as it is, the management team are improving the squad all the time and i have every faith in them to give us a squad that will be competing at the top next season. Nigel isn't Mourinhio and the home form is disappointing and fustrating but he is a good manager and is well respected at this level. It would be unfair to judge him on pre-christmas form as he had his hands tied and we saw his worth when he started to build the squad he wanted. But like i said, we'll see next season whether Nigel is the man for the job, i fully believe that he is.

Well put, but I fear it will fall on deaf ears.

 

[John. Walkington.]

This was a season for consolidation and avoiding free fall through to League 1.
Also about financial survival.

We are still in existence and building for the future.

In that we have achieved.

 

[TigerMarv]

I'm failing to see how this season has been a success. We've finished mid-table in a poor league, filled our team with budget signings that will get us nowhere and have a manager who's proved himself to be average at best.

I'm thankful for the Allam's, but until they change the management structure the club won't progress.

Who said success ??? but I think it is actually a season of sucess as sucess is all relative and as we looked destined for a relagation fight and avoided that with comfort that has to be a sucess

Poor League ??? Im sure you actually mean one of the most competative leagues

Manager who has proved himself to be average at best ??? Im still baffled by this one, how has he done that? In most peoples book I would have thought he had proved himself more than adequate but his time before he came here and then turning our club from relagation fighters to mid table within one season

 

[N]

I'm failing to see how this season has been a success. We've finished mid-table in a poor league, filled our team with budget signings that will get us nowhere and have a manager who's proved himself to be average at best.

I'm thankful for the Allam's, but until they change the management structure the club won't progress.

Yawn

 

[RicardoHCAFC]

Who said success ??? but I think it is actually a season of sucess as sucess is all relative and as we looked destined for a relagation fight and avoided that with comfort that has to be a sucess

Poor League ??? Im sure you actually mean one of the most competative leagues

Manager who has proved himself to be average at best ??? Im still baffled by this one, how has he done that? In most peoples book I would have thought he had proved himself more than adequate but his time before he came here and then turning our club from relagation fighters to mid table within one season

I'm going to side with TWF on a few of points.

I don't know where this "relegation" fear has come from. Pre season we were all looking at the squad saying we should be able to finish midtable. Even when the form was poor at the start of the season I never feared relegation because I knew what was in the squad and that once we had a striker or two (admittedly pre takeover expecting loanees rather than Fryatt) we'd be comfortably above the drop zone.

The Championship being a competitive league doesn't make it a good quality league. This is the worst I remember the division being in a long time, it being competitive just means there's a lot of equally crap teams in it. Look at QPR and compare them to the side we had when we got promoted. They walked the league this season when we should have been way behind WBA (the distraction of their cup run), and other than Taarabt and Faurlin can you think of a single player that would have got into our team that season?

Myhill vs Kenny, Ricketts vs Orr (who's been a shadow of the player he was at Bristol C), Turner vs Gorkks, Brown vs Connolly, Dawson vs Hill (Hill isn't even a full back ffs), Ashbee (c) vs Derry, Marney vs Faurlin, Hughes vs Taarabt, Garcia vs Smith, Campbell vs Ephraim/Routledge (half seasons and we're thrown by their 451 to our 442), Windass vs Helguson.

Or you can look at us, we played the first half of the season without any meaningful strikers and were still in with a shot of the playoffs. If the team we had had started the 07/08 season we'd have been nowhere near promotion. Our opponents this season, the 3 promoted sides all finished above us and were pushing for promotion. There's no way they'd have been anywhere near the playoffs in the 07/08 season, Norwich when we played them a few weeks ago were terrible, Forest were as well, and we played them when we were ****e.

This season the squad is where the squad should be with regards the competition we've faced so I can see where TWF is coming from saying he hasn't been a miracle worker. Where I differ from him is I think he's done a decent job, and certainly a better job than Brown would have done.

A manager with limited resources will always start rebuilding a squad from the back and then work forwards. That will though create negative tactics which stifles entertainment. He wasn't helped by Simpson's form in the first half of the season, or by McLean being a failed signing that's cost us a lot of money. Then when you have our two best wingers in Stewart and Garcia both getting injured, it was never going to be the most attacking set up.

What's been ridiculous in the criticism of NP has been the defence of Dawson's negativity as "the manager's tactics" followed by a complete disappearance of the same people when you point out that Rosenior playing the same role on the opposite side has been one of our best attacking players.

I disagree with him about Bullard/Olofinjana etc. It doesn't matter if they're the best players in the division. Even Brown couldn't get them to produce it on the pitch often enough either due to their regular injuries (Bullard) or just not being able to get them to perform (Olofinjana). Secondly, even if we could, we can't afford to pay them therefore we have to try to offload them and build a squad that can handle the division without them. We don't want to have the squad limited by Bullard's wages and then sell him/loan him out on deadline day with no alternatives in the building. If that means this season loaning him out for half his wages and using those savings to fund 2 or 3 of our own loans or permanent signings then that's what we need to do.

 

[N]

It can't be denied that TWF speaks some truth in his posts and he is great at making his point.

The problem is that his sole purpose on here is been negative and criticising the team and staff. His obsession with Adam Pearson is quite frankly strange and some of his arguements are ridiculous.

I actually agree with a lot of his points but the way he presents them at times is ludicrous.

 

[originallambrettaman]

I'd suggest that the fear of relegation came from being in the relegation zone and knowing we had no money to do anything about it at the start of the year.

I can see the points your making and with agree with some, though I think listing the players might have weakened your argument somewhat, man for man I think the QPR players mentioned are better than the ones we had in our promotion season.

 

[King Curtis]

I'm going to side with TWF on a few of points.

I don't know where this "relegation" fear has come from. Pre season we were all looking at the squad saying we should be able to finish midtable. Even when the form was poor at the start of the season I never feared relegation because I knew what was in the squad and that once we had a striker or two (admittedly pre takeover expecting loanees rather than Fryatt) we'd be comfortably above the drop zone.

The Championship being a competitive league doesn't make it a good quality league. This is the worst I remember the division being in a long time, it being competitive just means there's a lot of equally crap teams in it. Look at QPR and compare them to the side we had when we got promoted. They walked the league this season when we should have been way behind WBA (the distraction of their cup run), and other than Taarabt and Faurlin can you think of a single player that would have got into our team that season?

Myhill vs Kenny, Ricketts vs Orr (who's been a shadow of the player he was at Bristol C), Turner vs Gorkks, Brown vs Connolly, Dawson vs Hill (Hill isn't even a full back ffs), Ashbee (c) vs Derry, Marney vs Faurlin, Hughes vs Taarabt, Garcia vs Smith, Campbell vs Ephraim/Routledge (half seasons and we're thrown by their 451 to our 442), Windass vs Helguson.

Or you can look at us, we played the first half of the season without any meaningful strikers and were still in with a shot of the playoffs. If the team we had had started the 07/08 season we'd have been nowhere near promotion. Our opponents this season, the 3 promoted sides all finished above us and were pushing for promotion. There's no way they'd have been anywhere near the playoffs in the 07/08 season, Norwich when we played them a few weeks ago were terrible, Forest were as well, and we played them when we were ****e.

This season the squad is where the squad should be with regards the competition we've faced so I can see where TWF is coming from saying he hasn't been a miracle worker. Where I differ from him is I think he's done a decent job, and certainly a better job than Brown would have done.

A manager with limited resources will always start rebuilding a squad from the back and then work forwards. That will though create negative tactics which stifles entertainment. He wasn't helped by Simpson's form in the first half of the season, or by McLean being a failed signing that's cost us a lot of money. Then when you have our two best wingers in Stewart and Garcia both getting injured, it was never going to be the most attacking set up.

What's been ridiculous in the criticism of NP has been the defence of Dawson's negativity as "the manager's tactics" followed by a complete disappearance of the same people when you point out that Rosenior playing the same role on the opposite side has been one of our best attacking players.

I disagree with him about Bullard/Olofinjana etc. It doesn't matter if they're the best players in the division. Even Brown couldn't get them to produce it on the pitch often enough either due to their regular injuries (Bullard) or just not being able to get them to perform (Olofinjana). Secondly, even if we could, we can't afford to pay them therefore we have to try to offload them and build a squad that can handle the division without them. We don't want to have the squad limited by Bullard's wages and then sell him/loan him out on deadline day with no alternatives in the building. If that means this season loaning him out for half his wages and using those savings to fund 2 or 3 of our own loans or permanent signings then that's what we need to do.

Some good points made, and when you contrast the standard of the league this year and 3 years ago you provide some good evidence to support your claim. Like Hullfan1991 says, if TWF structured his posts in this fashion he'd get a lot less abuse. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but when you make statements you can't back up and criticise people without evidence, people won't look at your opinions as fondly. If he made his points in a more constructive and cohesive manner he'd gain more friends than enemies on this forum.

 

[TigerMarv]

I take what your saying Ricardo

I feared relagation fight (I always thought we would survive) due to the number of players we got rid of and those left would have been low on confidence, that with the off field financial problems

You might be right by the quality of the league you might not be but I never said it was a good quality just competative meaning that anybody can beat anybody else, I know many opposition fans didnt rate our team that got promoted and thought we just got lucky in the loanee market with Campbell, so are you just doing the same to other teams (probably a bit of both)

One thing I dont get is why people say that Simpson had a loss of form for half a season yet call Mclean **** and hes only had half a season ?
I say give Mclean next season to prove he either had a loss of form and taking time to adjustto new club and division or if he is as **** as many say, Im yer to be peruaded either way

 

[Erik]

Before the season I predicted a season not dissimilar to Boro's or Ip****s, with us finishing 14th.

So I'm actually quite pleased that we've finished 11th.

One thing that does piss me off is the fact that out of 12 games against the top 6, we only lost 2 - both against Cardiff, which is as many as against Sheff United, S****s and PNE.

Top Six Record:

Played: 12
Won: 3
Drew: 7
Lost: 2

Bottom 3 Record:

Played: 6
Won: 4
Drew: 0
Lost 2

 

[RicardoHCAFC]

I'd suggest that the fear of relegation came from being in the relegation zone and knowing we had no money to do anything about it at the start of the year.

I can see the points your making and with agree with some, though I think listing the players might have weakened your argument somewhat, man for man I think the QPR players mentioned are better than the ones we had in our promotion season.

I can see why people would worry when we were in the drop zone, but at the time I was comparing it to the same time last season, and I was coming back from games a lot happier with the overall performance than I was then. We were just missing strikers capable of scoring, and with Simpson bound to hit form as the weight came off and the loan market to bring someone in and release Garcia to the midfield I never feared we'd be there for long.

The QPR team I would only take those two players over the options we had. Myhill I think went backwards in the PL, maybe a confidence issue with us losing a lot. Bradley Orr hasn't been anything special for QPR, if it was the Orr Bristol C had that season I'd have had him, but not the one QPR have had. Gorkks has made a lot of mistakes for QPR this season and even lost his place for a spell. I'd take Routledge over Campbell, but they've only had him since January, I'd rather have Campbell from October than Ephraim til Xmas and Routledge from January.

Helguson I don't think there's much of a difference, but I've just read on their forum that he's out of contract and hasn't been offered a new deal as at 3pm today (one of the fans talking to him) so he could be a good signing for us.

You might be right by the quality of the league you might not be but I never said it was a good quality just competative meaning that anybody can beat anybody else

One thing I dont get is why people say that Simpson had a loss of form for half a season yet call Mclean **** and hes only had half a season ?
I say give Mclean next season to prove he either had a loss of form and taking time to adjustto new club and division or if he is as **** as many say, Im yer to be peruaded either way

The quality of the league came up because your point was in response to a claim it was poor as though you were disagreeing with it.

I think the difference with Simpson and McLean is that Simpson showed last season that he can cut it at this level by scoring 13 or 14 for a poor QPR side and when he signed for us he looked overweight. McLean came in as an older player who's never shown it at this level and hasn't shown any sign of being up to it or given any indication that he's carrying an injury or extra weight that's holding him back. Simpson came in for a bargain price with a positive history, McLean came in with no history and a big price tag (as soon as it got to £800k I'd have viewed it as too much of a gamble and gone elsewhere), the approach fans had was always going to be more expectant with McLean and failure less acceptable.

 

[H-D]

Before the season I predicted a season not dissimilar to Boro's or Ip****s, with us finishing 14th.

So I'm actually quite pleased that we've finished 11th.

One thing that does piss me off is the fact that out of 12 games against the top 6, we only lost 2 - both against Cardiff, which is as many as against Sheff United, S****s and PNE.

Top Six Record:

Played: 12
Won: 3
Drew: 7
Lost: 2

Bottom 3 Record:

Played: 6
Won: 4
Drew: 0
Lost 2

Only losing 2 against the top six, that's a killer stat. That and 29 points at home all season (fifth worst in the division, behind the Iron, Sheff U, PNE and Derby). I also expected a lower mid-table finish, so on reflection a top half finish exceeded my expectations - a season of 'progression' is probably the right way to describe it.

But of course, we'll really be judged next season. A squad revamp is pretty obviously going to take place, which means a fair number of new players; that and the fact we have so many youngsters causes the majority of fans to think that we will get promoted, but I'm not so sure.

The home form needs to drastically improve. New players will need to gel pretty quickly, though it looks like NP wants his business done early. And we don't know how strong the division will be - I'm convinced about 8 other clubs who had similar seasons to us will have the same mentality of 'let's do it next season.' The three that come down are bound to be up at the top end of the table, and the teams who come up from League 1 might be fantastic (Norwich, Millwall, Leeds?). It all depends on the squad we start with in early August - a busy summer ahead!

 

[beverleytiger]

I personally agree with the argument the Championship is a poor standard league. All you have to do is look at how big the rift i between the Premier league and the Championship. How many times do you see a team promoted to the Premier league then go down after one or two season, granted there are teams that go up and establish themselves well, Stoke for example, yet look at Reading, 4? years ago they won the Championship with over 100 points, and did what we did. Then you get your Birmighams, Wolves, West Broms, who are far too good for the Championship, but dont quite cut it at Premier league level.

 

[King Curtis]

I personally agree with the argument the Championship is a poor standard league. All you have to do is look at how big the rift i between the Premier league and the Championship. How many times do you see a team promoted to the Premier league then go down after one or two season, granted there are teams that go up and establish themselves well, Stoke for example, yet look at Reading, 4? years ago they won the Championship with over 100 points, and did what we did. Then you get your Birmighams, Wolves, West Broms, who are far too good for the Championship, but dont quite cut it at Premier league level.

If anything, i would argue that the premiership has become weaker (or more competative if you will) Obviously, you have your elite top 6/7 (which i must admit is becoming less dominant than it was), but the gap between the other 13/14 teams for me isn't as big as it used to be. The bottom half of the premiership has never been so tight, and i doubt we'll see anyone mathematically relegated until the final day. Blackpool may have tailed off a bit but bearing in mind everyone wrote them off last year they've done incredibly well, a double over Liverpool and 4 points off spurs for example. The way the bottom half of the premier league is shaping up now, with decent management (Pulis at Stoke) and sensible spending i see no reason why those coming up this year won't compete with the bottom half of the premier league.