Aaron Ramsey

  • Thread starter Thread starter Cb
  • Start date Start date
  • Please bear with us on the new site integration and fixing any known bugs over the coming days. If you can not log in please try resetting your password and check your spam box. If you have tried these steps and are still struggling email [email protected] with your username/registered email address
  • Log in now to remove adverts - no adverts at all to registered members!
I think this is a good and considered article and I agree with the sentiment at the end. We like our scapegoats at Arsenal and that is the down side of a large support base - everyone is entitled to air their views, it doesnt mean that everyone agrees and we need honest and open debate. I feel that, unsurprisingly, Ramseys misfortune at the hands (or feet) of the young thug Shawcross (and yes, it still wrankles today that Shawcross was portrayed as the victim) set him back, almost to the point of starting again in his premiership dvelopment. Only he will know the effect that Speed demise has truly had on him. My own opionion is that he has started to show signs of the Ramsey we pinched from under Sir Alex's nose and that he will come good - he is young enough to. Whilst we are struggling this season, however, I still think that some our our fans will not share my view. Of course, I hope I will be proved right.
 
winifred122 said:
I think this is a good and considered article and I agree with the sentiment at the end. We like our scapegoats at Arsenal and that is the down side of a large support base - everyone is entitled to air their views, it doesnt mean that everyone agrees and we need honest and open debate. I feel that, unsurprisingly, Ramseys misfortune at the hands (or feet) of the young thug Shawcross (and yes, it still wrankles today that Shawcross was portrayed as the victim) set him back, almost to the point of starting again in his premiership dvelopment. Only he will know the effect that Speed demise has truly had on him. My own opionion is that he has started to show signs of the Ramsey we pinched from under Sir Alex's nose and that he will come good - he is young enough to. Whilst we are struggling this season, however, I still think that some our our fans will not share my view. Of course, I hope I will be proved right.
Click to expand...

Winifred I think you pretty much nailed the situation, Sadly I think Ramsey's career was ruined by Shawcross, in a similar way Diaby's injuries, now, are a direct effect of the appalling tackle made on him by Dan Smith at Sunderland.
I feel that neither will fully achieve their potential, but obviously hope I'm wrong.
As a side issue how did gooners feel about Shawcross playing for England, even if he was a disaster. I really find it difficult to support my Country when they pick cloggers.
 
winifred122 said:
We like our scapegoats at Arsenal and that is the down side of a large support base
Click to expand...

I absolutely loathe the scapegoating. It's cheap and lazy and it has a really detrimental effect on the player. There's a nasty misguided streak amongst some supporters, who think that one player is responsible for all of our problems and that booing him is somehow going to make the situation better. Whether it was Eboue, Denilson, Bendtner, even Walcott got it before and now Ramsey. Some of our supporters seem oblivious to the concept of supporting our players when they need it the most and instead they just heap blame on them. As far as I'm concerned, if you're doing this, you might as well be cheering on the opposition as it has the same effect.
 
Really good article <applause>

People tend to forget that Ramsey basically carried the whole of the midfield last season and was asked to play in a number of different positions. In the absence of Fabregas, Nasri and a whole host of new players coming in, he was the one constant in there. He worked his socks off and never got any credit for it, just a load of abuse when towards the end of the season he tired and his form dipped badly.

The lad is only twenty one and has already shown that he's got enough skill to make it at Arsenal. As you point out, he basically had to start again after his horror injury. So his progress has been slow. There are areas he needs to improve on, giving the ball away in midfield is a big crime and especially without a DM, it puts us on the backfoot, but he's no more guilty than some others.

That said, so far this season - whilst nobody has really shone - Ramsey has put in some of the better performances in our team. He's a hard worker, committed and ready for the cause. Let's hope that some of our fans can reflect the same sentiments towards him <ok>
 
I can't answer on behalf of all gooners, but I am ambivalent to Shawcross these days. He did what he did (to Ramsey) because he was fired-up by a non-descript oaf of a manager who has proven that he has no footballing brain at all. I heard the radio reporter remark at half time during the match at West Brom last weekend that Stoke were playing the usual 'anti-football' and that is down purely to Pulis. I named Shawcross as a thug above purely based on the moment against Ramsey. My anger was (and in some part still is) directed towards the pathetic "he's not that sort of lad" crap that Pulis came out with and then the rubbish from Stoke about Ramsey's alleged refusal to accept Shawcross's apology ("Sorry mate...", "Oh, thats alright then"). You are right to compare Diaby's situation and, of course, let us not forget how Eduardo's career was bought to an early end by another tackle made by a player fired up by another substandard manager - McLeish, who also came out with no credit for his reaction.
As for Shawcross and England - well he did really well when he came on didn't he - this is a wider debate about the level of English players available. He is good in the air at both ends and as a general stopper not bad. Is the the greatest centre-half we will ever see? I doubt it - but what choice is there out there these days. Roy has to give everyone a chance to show what they can do.
 
PISKIE said:
I absolutely loathe the scapegoating. It's cheap and lazy and it has a really detrimental effect on the player. There's a nasty misguided streak amongst some supporters, who think that one player is responsible for all of our problems and that booing him is somehow going to make the situation better. Whether it was Eboue, Denilson, Bendtner, even Walcott got it before and now Ramsey. Some of our supporters seem oblivious to the concept of supporting our players when they need it the most and instead they just heap blame on them. As far as I'm concerned, if you're doing this, you might as well be cheering on the opposition as it has the same effect.
Click to expand...

Agreed
 
thanks. Agree with your sentiments exactly. As long as a player plays for a team with full commitment theres no room for jeering. I singled out ramsey because some of the abuse directed towards him is appalling.
 
PISKIE said:
Really good article <applause>

People tend to forget that Ramsey basically carried the whole of the midfield last season and was asked to play in a number of different positions. In the absence of Fabregas, Nasri and a whole host of new players coming in, he was the one constant in there. He worked his socks off and never got any credit for it, just a load of abuse when towards the end of the season he tired and his form dipped badly.

The lad is only twenty one and has already shown that he's got enough skill to make it at Arsenal. As you point out, he basically had to start again after his horror injury. So his progress has been slow. There are areas he needs to improve on, giving the ball away in midfield is a big crime and especially without a DM, it puts us on the backfoot, but he's no more guilty than some others.

That said, so far this season - whilst nobody has really shone - Ramsey has put in some of the better performances in our team. He's a hard worker, committed and ready for the cause. Let's hope that some of our fans can reflect the same sentiments towards him <ok>
Click to expand...

While most of the time I just come on here and read in the background and generally agree with many of your posts (especially your replies to HIAG on the Spurs board) I do feel you completely (and unfairly) discount certain fans' views if they're not the same as your own.

I think it's perfectly acceptable to have an opinion that a player is not good enough for the team you support. Having that opinion doesn't mean you're a bad person because you've made said player a scapegoat.

1. I don't agree that Ramsay carried our midfield last season so don't accuse me of 'forgetting' that. I simply don't acknowledge it as true. I can acknowledge you have that opinion though.

2. I don't agree that Ramsay has shown the skill that he can make it at Arsenal. Most players can have flashes, or even whole games, where they look impressive, Ramsay included. But this doesn't mean they are good enough for a team in the long term. Look at Nani, Torres and Henderson... each can look, or have looked, good at times but none of them are really consistently good enough to be first-XI material.

3. You say he needs to improve his distribution in midfield. If that is what he doesn't do well, what does he do well? I've yet to see him have too many great games of defending or attacking since his comeback. The same can be said of Denilson when he was here (another you said was unfairly labelled a 'scapegoat', even though in my opinion he was fairly labelled as 'not offering much to the team').

4. I don't agree that Ramsay has put in some of the better performances. Although, even this was true, it wouldn't mean a lot given the poor performances of most of the squad.

Agreed that booing, or actively not supporting, players is not going to help them... or the team... but blindly supporting players who don't deserve it doesn't achieve much either. Praise should be earned, not used as a carrot.

Being a 'hard-worker', 'committed', 'ready for the cause' and an 'ever-present last season' are not qualities that define a good player... more an indictment of our current squad that they can all be used to describe Aaron Ramsey. He's about the same standard as someone like Steve Sidwell. Give it a few years and I reckon he'll be at somewhere like Fulham, Everton or Villa.
 
cini65 said:
While most of the time I just come on here and read in the background and generally agree with many of your posts (especially your replies to HIAG on the Spurs board) I do feel you completely (and unfairly) discount certain fans' views if they're not the same as your own.

I think it's perfectly acceptable to have an opinion that a player is not good enough for the team you support. Having that opinion doesn't mean you're a bad person because you've made said player a scapegoat.

1. I don't agree that Ramsay carried our midfield last season so don't accuse me of 'forgetting' that. I simply don't acknowledge it as true. I can acknowledge you have that opinion though.

2. I don't agree that Ramsay has shown the skill that he can make it at Arsenal. Most players can have flashes, or even whole games, where they look impressive, Ramsay included. But this doesn't mean they are good enough for a team in the long term. Look at Nani, Torres and Henderson... each can look, or have looked, good at times but none of them are really consistently good enough to be first-XI material.

3. You say he needs to improve his distribution in midfield. If that is what he doesn't do well, what does he do well? I've yet to see him have too many great games of defending or attacking since his comeback. The same can be said of Denilson when he was here (another you said was unfairly labelled a 'scapegoat', even though in my opinion he was fairly labelled as 'not offering much to the team').

4. I don't agree that Ramsay has put in some of the better performances. Although, even this was true, it wouldn't mean a lot given the poor performances of most of the squad.

Agreed that booing, or actively not supporting, players is not going to help them... or the team... but blindly supporting players who don't deserve it doesn't achieve much either. Praise should be earned, not used as a carrot.

Being a 'hard-worker', 'committed', 'ready for the cause' and an 'ever-present last season' are not qualities that define a good player... more an indictment of our current squad that they can all be used to describe Aaron Ramsey. He's about the same standard as someone like Steve Sidwell. Give it a few years and I reckon he'll be at somewhere like Fulham, Everton or Villa.
Click to expand...
Absolutely spot on.

1. Ramsey lingers on the ball and gets caught in possession far too often.
2. He is unaware of what is happening around him, meaning he can't pick a pass.
3. He can't shoot to save his life (but maybe the lives of others :) ).
4. He doesn't track back enough when he is played as a CM.
5. He doesn't offer any pace when he is played on the wing.
6. He isn't inventive enough with the ball in advanced positions.
7. He is too inventive with it in risky positions, leading to loss of possession, and goals against.

It's far too risky to play him as a CM. Playing him as a winger is a waste of a player. You might as well start with 10 men. His only possible position is as an AM, but I'd rather have Cazorla, Wilshere, Arshavin, Podolski, or even Arteta in that position before him.
 
Ramsey has been totally **** for us for a long time now, and along side other players, is a reason why we find ourselves in a position where we don't challenge.
 
Only real option for us is for him to go out on loan. We have Rosicky back, have Coqs too and maybe if Diaby ever makes a return this season. So we have enough midfield cover.
 
I think Ramsey has been poor for a long time and I'm not sure that he has ever fully recovered from the broken leg and when he did start to get back to some type of form he was handed the captaincy of Wales and we were looking for him to push on.

Then obviously Speed passed away and he then had the captaincy removed from him and now I don't know if he will ever admit it or has ever admitted it but i'm sure this knocked his confidence! I think Ramsey would benefit from a period out on loan where he can play 90 minutes every week and start to grow into the player we all hoped he would be before his injury!
 
cini65 said:
While most of the time I just come on here and read in the background and generally agree with many of your posts (especially your replies to HIAG on the Spurs board) I do feel you completely (and unfairly) discount certain fans' views if they're not the same as your own.

I think it's perfectly acceptable to have an opinion that a player is not good enough for the team you support. Having that opinion doesn't mean you're a bad person because you've made said player a scapegoat.

1. I don't agree that Ramsay carried our midfield last season so don't accuse me of 'forgetting' that. I simply don't acknowledge it as true. I can acknowledge you have that opinion though.

2. I don't agree that Ramsay has shown the skill that he can make it at Arsenal. Most players can have flashes, or even whole games, where they look impressive, Ramsay included. But this doesn't mean they are good enough for a team in the long term. Look at Nani, Torres and Henderson... each can look, or have looked, good at times but none of them are really consistently good enough to be first-XI material.

3. You say he needs to improve his distribution in midfield. If that is what he doesn't do well, what does he do well? I've yet to see him have too many great games of defending or attacking since his comeback. The same can be said of Denilson when he was here (another you said was unfairly labelled a 'scapegoat', even though in my opinion he was fairly labelled as 'not offering much to the team').

4. I don't agree that Ramsay has put in some of the better performances. Although, even this was true, it wouldn't mean a lot given the poor performances of most of the squad.

Agreed that booing, or actively not supporting, players is not going to help them... or the team... but blindly supporting players who don't deserve it doesn't achieve much either. Praise should be earned, not used as a carrot.

Being a 'hard-worker', 'committed', 'ready for the cause' and an 'ever-present last season' are not qualities that define a good player... more an indictment of our current squad that they can all be used to describe Aaron Ramsey. He's about the same standard as someone like Steve Sidwell. Give it a few years and I reckon he'll be at somewhere like Fulham, Everton or Villa.
Click to expand...

Fair enough fella <ok>
 
cini65 said:
While most of the time I just come on here and read in the background and generally agree with many of your posts (especially your replies to HIAG on the Spurs board) I do feel you completely (and unfairly) discount certain fans' views if they're not the same as your own.

I think it's perfectly acceptable to have an opinion that a player is not good enough for the team you support. Having that opinion doesn't mean you're a bad person because you've made said player a scapegoat.

1. I don't agree that Ramsay carried our midfield last season so don't accuse me of 'forgetting' that. I simply don't acknowledge it as true. I can acknowledge you have that opinion though.

2. I don't agree that Ramsay has shown the skill that he can make it at Arsenal. Most players can have flashes, or even whole games, where they look impressive, Ramsay included. But this doesn't mean they are good enough for a team in the long term. Look at Nani, Torres and Henderson... each can look, or have looked, good at times but none of them are really consistently good enough to be first-XI material.

3. You say he needs to improve his distribution in midfield. If that is what he doesn't do well, what does he do well? I've yet to see him have too many great games of defending or attacking since his comeback. The same can be said of Denilson when he was here (another you said was unfairly labelled a 'scapegoat', even though in my opinion he was fairly labelled as 'not offering much to the team').

4. I don't agree that Ramsay has put in some of the better performances. Although, even this was true, it wouldn't mean a lot given the poor performances of most of the squad.

Agreed that booing, or actively not supporting, players is not going to help them... or the team... but blindly supporting players who don't deserve it doesn't achieve much either. Praise should be earned, not used as a carrot.

Being a 'hard-worker', 'committed', 'ready for the cause' and an 'ever-present last season' are not qualities that define a good player... more an indictment of our current squad that they can all be used to describe Aaron Ramsey. He's about the same standard as someone like Steve Sidwell. Give it a few years and I reckon he'll be at somewhere like Fulham, Everton or Villa.
Click to expand...

Couldn't have put it better, on this board if you express an opinion that doesn't fit the party line as laid down by Piskie, Cym Toledo Trumpton Magic Man etc, then you are labelled as a trouble maker, idiot, divisive plastic, wum.... the list goes on. Most of us see whats in front of us, which at present, is a team of average players, replacing good players who have been sold on to make a profit. Four wins in 13 games is catastrophic. Does anyone really feel confident whoever the opposition is? I know I don't. But still what do I know I've only been supporting Arsenal for 55 years.
 
The Boxer said:
Couldn't have put it better, on this board if you express an opinion that doesn't fit the party line as laid down by Piskie, Cym Toledo Trumpton Magic Man etc, then you are labelled as a trouble maker, idiot, divisive plastic, wum.... the list goes on. Most of us see whats in front of us, which at present, is a team of average players, replacing good players who have been sold on to make a profit. Four wins in 13 games is catastrophic. Does anyone really feel confident whoever the opposition is? I know I don't. But still what do I know I've only been supporting Arsenal for 55 years.
Click to expand...
Who told you that?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back