Style over Substance?

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Spurf

Spurf

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Jan 27, 2011
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Watching the Celtic/Barca game last night you had to be impressed with the work rate and commitment to the cause displayed by Celtic. Outgunned in every position except possibly the goalkeeper Celtic just worked and worked to get their win.

I thought the same when Norwich and Wigan beat us in recent games. We had the players but the opposition had the commitment.

All Spurs fans enjoy our flowing attractive football, that's what we are about but we badly need to add application to some of our performances especially against 'lower teams'. Our record against teams that on paper we should beat is not good and that's not just this season.

I think we are missing Parker on this score because he is one player who always gives 100% and I'm sure his attitude rubs off on the other players. The sooner he is back the better and I think there is a strong case for making him captain. The other player who springs to mind is Dawson he's not pretty but he's very effective and again always gives 100%. Perhaps the only player to have shown this in recent matches is Sandro and now he is out too. Add to that the injured Kaboul another 'worker' and the engine room is pretty much missing.

These are serious gaps in our team, we still have very skillful players available but without the real fighters I've mentioned above we are less than half as effective. We are style without substance.
 
have to agree spurf, we currently don't have any "battlers" or "fighters" in the team and it's clearly noticeable.

The more concerning thing is that we don't even have the attractive football either. In recent seasons, it's been frustrating when we've lost games, especially after playing so well. - I have always been able to deal with that though, as that's football and you win some, you lose some. As long as we've gone out there and done our best. who ever we're playing against.. that's all you can ask for. But at the moment, we don't appear to even have our attractive football that you mention, which is what I enjoy so much about being a spurs fan. I'm of a generation that's never been used to trophies or glory, but to me that doesn't matter as long a I'm entertained each week, watching a sport I love. For me, there's no style or substance at the moment.
 
To me there is no one ready to roll up the sleeves when the going gets tough.
Can anyone tell me if AVB actually takes any notice of Freund,he knows what is required when things aren't going well.
As others have said Parker is missed, but it isn't rocket science to get stuck in when necessary.
 
This is not a new problem, following Davids we all remember the relief with which we greeted Palacious (although fairly short lived) and then the big impact Parker had. Parker remember was not wanted by many fans, but when he arrived the difference soon changed a few minds.

Dembele is of course a big miss, but Parker might just make the difference when he returns.
 
When is Parker expected back? He is a big loss and certainly inspires those around him. I made the same point on a thread about Walker's dip in form 2 or 3 weeks ago.

So, no Sandro, Parker or Kaboul and dawson out of favour with visits to Man City and Ar5ena1 coming up next in the Prem. Not looking good in the short term then.
 
Spurf said:
This is not a new problem, following Davids we all remember the relief with which we greeted Palacious (although fairly short lived) and then the big impact Parker had. Parker remember was not wanted by many fans, but when he arrived the difference soon changed a few minds.

Dembele is of course a big miss, but Parker might just make the difference when he returns.
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Defensively, no doubt about it. but even when he's back, we'll are likely to still face the creative/ defence to attack dilemma we still have if Dembele gets injured again, IMO.
 
I'd noticed this too, half arsed attempts to get back, jogging and strolling around leaving it to the next bloke...utter rubbish.
 
This is a long-standing problem for Spurs. The other top clubs can chase games without looking wide open at the back. We need to be more solid while retaining the ability to unlock defences. The real answer is better, more versatile players but we also need every ounce of effort out of the ones we've got which hasn't always been the case. Some of this is simple stuff like forwards getting back onside quickly enough. I share people's views of Dawson's qualities - never leaves anything more to give. But we need to get the same attitude into our more skillful players too. I didn't watch the match last night but Xavi, Iniesta and Messi usually never stop running despite the fact that they are some of the most skillful players on the planet.
 
Not watched many of your games but joint 4th after 10 games with a new manager isn't too bad, if he gets things right it could be a decent season ahead <ok>
 
Style said:
Not watched many of your games but joint 4th after 10 games with a new manager isn't too bad, if he gets things right it could be a decent season ahead <ok>
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And now for the opinion of Substance...
 
notsosmartspur said:
Hudd is in the news today... http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/4632863/Tom-Huddlestone-Give-us-time.html

A few things there...

1. Manager is still getting his ideas across?...whats he teaching, is it football or quantum physics? how long does it take??

2. Its more rigid shape...I can't see one of late!, and what does he mean, has he taken zonal marking to a new level with zonal football??

3. We're harder to beat???...lost for words!!
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He said: &#8220;It is hard for the fans. They have watched some good football over the last four years in the gung-ho style."

call it what you like Tom, the gung-ho approach where you all expressed yourselves produced a lot of exciting, dangerous football, where we were harder to beat because we usually scored more goals! if they equalised, at least we went at it to try and get another one! Now it's "****... we're winning by 1 goal?!... right operation park the bus and hope for the best!"<laugh>
 
Playing in a way your not used to then having to adapt a different approach can take more than 15 games. Especially when some of the main cogs to that machine are missing.

Hudd is right. 15 games is not giving things time.

I don't think we are easier to beat this year that's for sure. I think we just don't seem as creative upfront...the name VDV comes to mind...that slide rule pass is missing from our game. The quality of the forwards thinking plays a part in this. Aswell as Defoe has done. I don't think he's that intelligent to tempt such passes...so the ball is going sideways too much for me in order to regain possession...not easy to do for the best of teams.

I thought we were pretty free flowing when Dembele was playing. Throw Ade out of that team aswell and that is major 'fluency' missing from our team.

I think Hudd is spot on. The team needs time.
 
I like style.

Of course I want to win every game and when necessary during matches, show some grit and fight but I like to watch entertaining football and if that means at times we'll come undone by negative tactics so be it.

To be honest though, as of late we haven't even had great style which annoys me.

notsosmartspur said:
Hudd is in the news today... http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/4632863/Tom-Huddlestone-Give-us-time.html

A few things there...

1. Manager is still getting his ideas across?...whats he teaching, is it football or quantum physics? how long does it take??

2. Its more rigid shape...I can't see one of late!, and what does he mean, has he taken zonal marking to a new level with zonal football??

3. We're harder to beat???...lost for words!!
Click to expand...

Admittedly I have no idea how to manage a top level club, that being said, the fact it's a top level club should enable a half decent manager to be able to implement the style of play he wants within a relatively short amount of time.

As for saying we're harder to beat... Wow. It's only down to the fact that some teams haven't been clinical enough to finish off chances against us that we haven't lost or conceded equalisers more. Unfortunately for us, Chelsea showed just what can happen when we make silly mistakes and fail to clear our lines.
 
So how are we easier to beat?

I can give you many examples of matches where we have been easy to beat last year aswell. I thought Arsenal steamrolled us after giving us a headstart aswell. I don't think it's fair to suggest that we have become easier to beat because of AVB and his tactics.
 
Substance will be the key for us in the short term but long term I don't think we should accept a team not playing attacking, exciting football.
 
Spurlock said:
So how are we easier to beat?

I can give you many examples of matches where we have been easy to beat last year aswell. I thought Arsenal steamrolled us after giving us a headstart aswell. I don't think it's fair to suggest that we have become easier to beat because of AVB and his tactics.
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Look at the teams we've played though Spurlock.

With the fantastic result against Man Utd aside and then the loss to Chelsea at home we've not faced any other "top" side unless you include the loss to Newcastle away which is a game that a point would have been considered a good result, we've played teams that shouldn't be causing us too many problems, especially at home. Chelsea showed how easy it was to cut us open and we've been troubled in games against QPR, Southampton, conceded sloppy goals to WBA and NCFC, as for the Wigan result, I think that's best left aside and not spoken of. PLUS there's the goals we've conceded in our two away fixtures in the Europa and CO Cup game to Norwich in which all goals were sloppy mistakes.

My worry is against better, more clinical sides, it could show how costly the mistakes we seem to be making are, as I've said Chelsea have exploited our defence, we've still got Arsenal, City, Liverpool, Stoke, Everton, Fulham - all good solid sides with decent/ good strike forces - still to play.
 
Does anybody know the points haul for corresponding fixtures last year?

I think there is a very fine line somewhere here.
 
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