The image of the fan - monkey gesture

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Prince Isak (GG)

Prince Isak (GG)

Well-Known Member
Jan 31, 2011
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Carlisle
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...-Manchester-United-striker-Danny-Welbeck.html

This is a link to the picture re the man who was 'apparently' making monkey gestures.

Now this racism row thing is now being blown out of all proportions but look closely at the picture.

SPOILER ALERT - This is not my opinion merely interpretation!

One person may see him doing an impression of a monkey.

Another might see him putting his hands (both of them) in his pockets

The point I am trying to make here is that a picture taken at the right time can be misleading. The people around him will know if he did this and if that is the case (that he did) then that is bad.

But IMO this racism row is getting out of hand... Id like to see the word 'Racism; dropped and in replace of it the word 'Abuse' no one, being black or white, should be subject to abuse.......
 
That's a very unusual way to put your hands in your pockets. I think he's banged to rights there like!!

But on subject I agree with the point of the article, it's getting ridiculous
 
Just ignore it. If a bunch of black guys made ghost noises towards white guys, are we gonna accuse them of racism?

Fans get away with saying **** like "Oi you ****ing little ****, I hope your mother ****ing dies you piece of ****. Go kill yourself", but someone makes a monkey noise and everyone starts crying?

FFS people need to grow ****ing backbones. Ignore the stupid chants and man the **** up!
 
Tash.:3700266 said:
Just ignore it. If a bunch of black guys made ghost noises towards white guys, are we gonna accuse them of racism?

Fans get away with saying **** like "Oi you ****ing little ****, I hope your mother ****ing dies you piece of ****. Go kill yourself", but someone makes a monkey noise and everyone starts crying?

FFS people need to grow ****ing backbones. Ignore the stupid chants and man the **** up!
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Not sure about this mate, this opinion is bordering on Sepp Blatters. Just shake hands statement
 
Tash. said:
If you're offended by another persons words, don't associate with them. Get rid of the pre-match handshake or allow people to refuse to take part in it.

People being offended should never be made such a big ****ing deal. I get offended, but I don't start crying over it. I get offended when Christians say that I deserve to burn in hell for not believing in their god, but I don't try and get hate speech laws enabled, because everyone should have the right to say whatever the **** they want.

That's why I think the KKK should be allowed to have their rallies saying "**** ******s, Jews and ***gots".

Forcing other people to think, say and act like you do is facism. As long as someone isn't infringing on your rights, then they should be allowed to act however they want. Sending people to jail for making monkey noises is pathetic, it really is.

Sepp Blatter stated that you should shake the hand of the man who called you names, I say ignore him, and just do your job. If that person is constantly on your back and wont leave you alone, then that's harassment. Calling someone a name isn't, and you can't lock people away for it.
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The problem is though fella usually words are followed with actions, if you let the KKK run around saying what they like then they will soon start to do what they like. I agree alot, at the moment, is being made out of the racism situation and it is being blown out of proportion a little but people need be reminded not to over step the mark.
 
The thing is Tash, categorising someone using any type of abuse is an infringement of the victims human rights. Some your opinion is very outdated and bordering on criminal itself. I'd be careful to who and where you voice these opinions.
 
Section 2 of the human right act 2000 states that man is allowed to live a life of equality, dignity and freedom without discrimination.

Hardly dignifying as a black person to have monkey gestures made at you when your doing your job, is it?

Also in an answer to you being discriminated in a religious manner. I'm sure the same section it allows a man the right to religion and belief. This also means you have a right not to have a religion or belief.

Of course it's entirely up to the victims and/or the law authorities to deal with it as they see fit but if someone is breaking the law. However ''pathetic'' you think that law is they deserve to be punished!?
 
He looks like he is making a racist gesture to me but the pictures don't really give it context and it may be difficult to make it stick. He could use any number of excuses. How can they say for certain he was directing it at Welbeck who seems some distance away on the photo. However many will feel a video will give it context as it is at a moment when Welbeck miscontrols the ball.

It is getting very tricky though. I have called James McClean a big ape on a number of occasions because of the way he lollops around. Pictures or video will not explain the intent of the man in question. The guy may simply be saying he plays football like an ape as I have described McClean. Or he could just be a racist twat. I'm sure the investigation will reveal all when he is afforded the opportunity to explain it.
 
Warm Pouch said:
He looks like he is making a racist gesture to me but the pictures don't really give it context and it may be difficult to make it stick. He could use any number of excuses. How can they say for certain he was directing it at Welbeck who seems some distance away on the photo. However many will feel a video will give it context as it is at a moment when Welbeck miscontrols the ball.

It is getting very tricky though. I have called James McClean a big ape on a number of occasions because of the way he lollops around. Pictures or video will not explain the intent of the man in question. The guy may simply be saying he plays football like an ape as I have described McClean. Or he could just be a racist twat. I'm sure the investigation will reveal all when he is afforded the opportunity to explain it.
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A months holiday for WP for calling McClean an ape.
 
Pretty sure if i just spent 5 minutes looking through pictures of the crowds I'd find someone doing a 'heil hitler' pose with a German player somewhere on the pitch.

It won't be aimed at them in the slightest they'll just be lifting their arm in the air and the photo taken at the exact moment which makes it look like that. A single picture can't tell a story, without a video/people around him reporting it surely they can't do anything about this.
 
1. It is just conceivable that the fellow is doing something else that looks exactly like a monkey chant, but quite unlikely.

2. The chances that a person at a football game would do a monkey chant without intending it to be a racial insult approach zero
 
Freddd said:
1. It is just conceivable that the fellow is doing something else that looks exactly like a monkey chant, but quite unlikely.

2. The chances that a person at a football game would do a monkey chant without intending it to be a racial insult approach zero
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The first bit is fair enough. However I think I have just proven that the 2nd bit is not the case at all. James McClean lollops around the pitch like an ape. Or a farmer. Take your pick really, just not a natural footballer. I told him so both at our place and when watching the away ones in the bar. Its not racial, its just the way he moves. If a black player moved in the same way however, people would be incandescent if someone pointed that out. I have no doubt they'd swiftly be charged and any excuses about the way the player moves would be dismissed as trying to pull the wool. This is where it becomes a mindfield and you get into restricting individual freedoms.

Having said that I suspect it was a racial slur on this occasion. I think that racial slur will be just about impossible to prove however bar him having mouthed racially motivated abuse. One of the key things to note I suppose is this is an individual. This is not like in eastern europe where bananas are thrown and the whole crowd partakes in terming the black players as monkeys. I cannot see how this could be proven in a court of law without something having been said.
 
Warm Pouch said:
The first bit is fair enough. However I think I have just proven that the 2nd bit is not the case at all. James McClean lollops around the pitch like an ape. Or a farmer. Take your pick really, just not a natural footballer. I told him so both at our place and when watching the away ones in the bar. Its not racial, its just the way he moves. If a black player moved in the same way however, people would be incandescent if someone pointed that out. I have no doubt they'd swiftly be charged and any excuses about the way the player moves would be dismissed as trying to pull the wool. This is where it becomes a mindfield and you get into restricting individual freedoms.

Having said that I suspect it was a racial slur on this occasion. I think that racial slur will be just about impossible to prove however bar him having mouthed racially motivated abuse. One of the key things to note I suppose is this is an individual. This is not like in eastern europe where bananas are thrown and the whole crowd partakes in terming the black players as monkeys. I cannot see how this could be proven in a court of law without something having been said.
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I think you said that you called mclean an ape. That I can understand, and I can understand how it could be misunderstood - - the speaker meaning "ungainly" and the hearer undertanding "subhuman inferior speciies".

I would be very surprised, though, if you did a monkey chant with gestures with respect to mr mclean.

I would be even more surprised if you would do it in the stands at a football match. Why ? Because for the past 30 years doing the monkey chant at the football ground has had a universally understood meaning. It is a way of calling black players monkeys as a racial slur. Anyone who knows anything about football knows that, and would know that a monkey chant would be given that meaning at a football match.

Someone can call a person a monkey for a number of reasons. People can imitate a monkey for a number of reasons. You do the monkey chant at a football game, though, for one reason only.
 
Warm Pouch said:
The first bit is fair enough. However I think I have just proven that the 2nd bit is not the case at all. James McClean lollops around the pitch like an ape. Or a farmer. Take your pick really, just not a natural footballer. I told him so both at our place and when watching the away ones in the bar. Its not racial, its just the way he moves. If a black player moved in the same way however, people would be incandescent if someone pointed that out. I have no doubt they'd swiftly be charged and any excuses about the way the player moves would be dismissed as trying to pull the wool. This is where it becomes a mindfield and you get into restricting individual freedoms.

Having said that I suspect it was a racial slur on this occasion. I think that racial slur will be just about impossible to prove however bar him having mouthed racially motivated abuse. One of the key things to note I suppose is this is an individual. This is not like in eastern europe where bananas are thrown and the whole crowd partakes in terming the black players as monkeys. I cannot see how this could be proven in a court of law without something having been said.
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see above. list the things this man could actually have thought he was doing other than issuing a racial insult.

i
 
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