I'll leave you to disagree with him then, I see where's he's coming from generally without trying to trip him up with the literal sense of his chosen words.
Lawro on AVB.
- Thread starter notsosmartspur
- Start date
-
Please bear with us on the new site integration and fixing any known bugs over the coming days. If you can not log in please try resetting your password and check your spam box. If you have tried these steps and are still struggling email [email protected] with your username/registered email address
-
I'll leave you to disagree with him then, I see where's he's coming from generally without trying to trip him up with the literal sense of his chosen words.
Lawro like most pundits sticks to the safe obvious and popular view. How many years has it taken to realise that Liverpool are not the force they were for example. They won't comment on Man U being on the way down for a long time. They expect the 'top teams' to be in the mix and are only just beginning to accept Spurs are consistently top 5.
They rarely say anything that could be considered an insight which is what they are supposed to be there for. Stick to the safe comments state the obvious and lets pass that off as insight. I read much more interesting analysis on here from fans. Match comments are more accurate and game perceptions have more depth. The fans who watch their team week after week are better placed to make sensible comments, well at least some of them anyway.
They rarely say anything that could be considered an insight which is what they are supposed to be there for. Stick to the safe comments state the obvious and lets pass that off as insight. I read much more interesting analysis on here from fans. Match comments are more accurate and game perceptions have more depth. The fans who watch their team week after week are better placed to make sensible comments, well at least some of them anyway.
Its a good point saying that he trots out the 'winning when not playing well' diatribe for the other top clubs, but tbf that doesn't really apply to us...what have we 'won' playing badly...or well for that matter!
One of the reasons we've not won the League for more than 60 years is that we've never been consistent and have never had the backbone in the side to protect the leads that our flair players have won for us. While I really like the way we've played I could cope with seeing us grind out a few extra points and be really up there with the best and I think Sandro and Dembele paired in DM to get us leads and then bringing on Parker or Livermore to protect them will be a good plan once everyone is fit and in tune with the system.
YV's post was excellent.
YV's post was excellent.
Switching to two holding midfielders always seems like a mistake, to me.
It just seems to invite more pressure and we end up with no outlet, getting pinned back into our own box, just endlessly defending.
It just seems to invite more pressure and we end up with no outlet, getting pinned back into our own box, just endlessly defending.
It always seems to happen like that, I agree, but I think YV's post had some good reasons why. Since Defoe is weak at holding the ball up and both Bale and Lennon retreat into defence we don't have an outlet. Not sure why that is but I think it could be corrected whilst still retaining the more defensive players.
About the only time that system has worked is when Arsenal had the Vieira/Petit partnership, but that had a rock hard back five behind it, plus Bergkamp and Overmars as dual creative and attacking outlets.
Both Petit and Vieira were pretty capable footballers too, especially the former.
The only real comparison between that side and our current one is a (lazy) comparison between Vieira and Dembele, as both of them can win the ball and bring it forward...albeit Dembele isn't hack-happy like Vieira often was.
A lot of players use Vieira as a template, to varying degrees of success - Zokora springing to mind as someone who really, really didn't do a decent job of it...
Can't make up mind about AVB yet. I like the fact he's fielding strong sides for the EL, and hopefully for the League Cup, he really does seem to be doing his best to win something which I applaud. On the other hand I'm very pissed off with his treatment of Lloris.
As usual, results are the key, if we win something and/or finish top 4 he will have done a great/fantastic job. If we don't and he wrecks Lloris' career with us, then I'll have lost faith in his methods.
As usual, results are the key, if we win something and/or finish top 4 he will have done a great/fantastic job. If we don't and he wrecks Lloris' career with us, then I'll have lost faith in his methods.
I'm still sceptical of him.
As many of you know I wasn't impressed with his appointment and I'd say I'm still on the "yet to be convinvced" side of things.
He hasn't impressed with certain decisions. Bringing Livermore on at 60 mins was a disastrous choice on Sunday. Not only was he woeful but his addition signalled that AVB wanted to shut up shop way too early. Huddlestone wasn't playing brilliant but he wasn't awful either and up until then Southampton had a few attacks but nothing of note, when Jake came on, we didn't have the outlet of using Hudd to spray some passes out wide when on the back foot and therefore our build up play was cack, add to the fact Jake barely won any tackles and misplaced easy passes, it made the second half very awkward to watch. I know if Dembele was fit then the likelihood of him making that change wouldn't have happened but I felt it was a bad decision from the moment Jake's and Hudd's numbers flashed up.
Obviously at the start of the season his two solid DM selection was really p*ssing me off as I'm sure you all noticed. I don't think our build up and style of play have been anywhere near the level of what it was under Harry either. I can appreciate we're without Luka and Rafa who were pivotal in our attacks but we've replaced them with more than adequate players and yet somehow, the speed and fluidity just isn't the same as under the Harry era, there seems to be a lot more sideward passing where as last season, it was always about finding the player infront of you.
I also don't like the fact we're keeping Lloris on the bench. It just seems a waste to pay £8m-£12m (whichever the exact fee is) on what many, myself included, would describe as a world class/ borderline world class keeper only to keep him benched. Yes it's all well and good people saying they're sure he'll be the number 1 soon but you have to think of his mind set at the moment, he's used to playing regularly and at the highest of levels, so to join a club as back up to a 41 year old (who hasn't been at his best) isn't doing him the best of good mentally.
Gallas' inclusion is also annoying for me especially as AVB seems to rate him as the number 1 CB, while he's put in 2/3 good performances, he's been woeful in others and I rate Dawson as a better defender and dislike the way he's been shafted aside too.
It's not all been doom and gloom though, the win at Old Trafford was amazing and AVB deserves a huge amount of credit for that, we look a lot better away from home - 3 wins from 4 away in the Prem is an awesome stat, especially when one of them is at Old Trafford!
He's got Defoe playing some of the best football of his career, it's not often Defoe has put in a shift for the TEAM, he always used to work hard but that was for himself to poach some goals, now we're seeing a new link up side to his game and he's kept Ade out deservedly in the lone striking position.
The same goes for Lennon, we're seeing the Azza of old in terms of taking on and beating the full backs and now gives me the confidence to say we don't need a new winger to come straight into the team, just perhaps one to push Bale and Lennon and ensure they don't become complacent.
Overall I'd say AVB has managed to gain a bit of faith from myself, I now don't sit here and think "we're f*cked with him at the helm" but I'm still far from convinced he's a better person to lead us than Redknapp.
Essay complete!
with all due respect sos,you saying you rate Dawson better than Gallas is irrelevent,AVB doesn't and he pick's the team,i still think he will sell Dawson in January,even though i agree with you.
I don't rate Lawrenson at all, and am pleased he doesn't seem to think much of AVB as it's some evidence that he's doing well.
It is very early. But how many of us would have guessed we'd be fourth after nine games, considering the amount of newbies we had at the beginning of the year? So, while it is very early, "so far, so good," is a fair verdict.
There are four things I notice, or think I notice, about AVB.
1. He seems intent on making the most of Spurs' long suit, which is pace. We have a faster trio of attacking players than anyone else, and they've been getting down the field and shooting before the defense has a chance to get set. It's resulted in a good return of goals, a lot of shots, and a style of game that suits Defoe's talents perfectly. I give AVB a lot of credit for these tactics, because they make the most of what he has rather than fitting the style he was known for.
2. Bad late defending and lots of crucial late goals. AVB has to deserve some blame here. Playing two DMs doesn't seem to work. But I think the root of the problem is the loss of both last year's starting CBs. Still, it has been bad enough I wonder why we don't keep right on playing the way that got us leads. Put another way, if we hadn't conceded late goals, we'd now be top of the league by, I think four points.
3. Defensible personnel decisions--but ones which have the potential of alienating stars. AVB has stuck with the players who've won games, even though that's left Lloris and Ade on the bench. Time will tell if this was wise.
4. Fairly bad luck with injuries.
Given all this, winning 5/6 and being in fourth is outstanding--though, again, it is very early.
But finally, I've got to say I think a word like "inconsistent" is...what the hell does he expect of a football team? That they'll win every game? What team (other than a handful of dominant champions) hasn't been inconsistent? It's like saying zebras are black and white, it's a complete waste of breath.
As to "Mr. Clipboard": well, I don't know enough to say, but I don't think Lawrenson does either.
It is very early. But how many of us would have guessed we'd be fourth after nine games, considering the amount of newbies we had at the beginning of the year? So, while it is very early, "so far, so good," is a fair verdict.
There are four things I notice, or think I notice, about AVB.
1. He seems intent on making the most of Spurs' long suit, which is pace. We have a faster trio of attacking players than anyone else, and they've been getting down the field and shooting before the defense has a chance to get set. It's resulted in a good return of goals, a lot of shots, and a style of game that suits Defoe's talents perfectly. I give AVB a lot of credit for these tactics, because they make the most of what he has rather than fitting the style he was known for.
2. Bad late defending and lots of crucial late goals. AVB has to deserve some blame here. Playing two DMs doesn't seem to work. But I think the root of the problem is the loss of both last year's starting CBs. Still, it has been bad enough I wonder why we don't keep right on playing the way that got us leads. Put another way, if we hadn't conceded late goals, we'd now be top of the league by, I think four points.
3. Defensible personnel decisions--but ones which have the potential of alienating stars. AVB has stuck with the players who've won games, even though that's left Lloris and Ade on the bench. Time will tell if this was wise.
4. Fairly bad luck with injuries.
Given all this, winning 5/6 and being in fourth is outstanding--though, again, it is very early.
But finally, I've got to say I think a word like "inconsistent" is...what the hell does he expect of a football team? That they'll win every game? What team (other than a handful of dominant champions) hasn't been inconsistent? It's like saying zebras are black and white, it's a complete waste of breath.
As to "Mr. Clipboard": well, I don't know enough to say, but I don't think Lawrenson does either.
I've often read that supporters and some of you included don't mind how the three points come as long as they do so it seems to me that you won't mind sacrificing flair as long as AVB gets the right results. I know I'm happy with fourth at the moment but Lawro thinks that we won't maintain it. Well if AVB is clipboard then please carry on and get us the CL and a trophy. We have all said that we are inconsistent so Lawro hasn't said anything that we didn't already know.
H
Hoddle is a god
Guest
I was one of the many who were skeptical at AVB's appointment, and I remain one of several of us who are in the let's-see-where-we-are-at-Christmas-before-I-put-the-knife-in camp.
If we can retain 4th by Christmas, I will be forced to give him huge credit, despite my massive misgivings about some of his tactical decisions, especially substitutions. However, I confess that it is for the very fact of those misgivings that I am extremely concerned that we will be able to hold onto 4th spot.
If we can retain 4th by Christmas, I will be forced to give him huge credit, despite my massive misgivings about some of his tactical decisions, especially substitutions. However, I confess that it is for the very fact of those misgivings that I am extremely concerned that we will be able to hold onto 4th spot.
Lawro like most pundits sticks to the safe obvious and popular view. How many years has it taken to realise that Liverpool are not the force they were for example. They won't comment on Man U being on the way down for a long time. They expect the 'top teams' to be in the mix and are only just beginning to accept Spurs are consistently top 5.
They rarely say anything that could be considered an insight which is what they are supposed to be there for. Stick to the safe comments state the obvious and lets pass that off as insight. I read much more interesting analysis on here from fans. Match comments are more accurate and game perceptions have more depth. The fans who watch their team week after week are better placed to make sensible comments, well at least some of them anyway.
I couldn't agree more. Most analysts spout completely inane master-of-the-obvious drivel (with some exceptions, like Neville). They're lazy. They need to talk to more people, ask better questions, look at more statistics, think about things more and/or watch more replays, in order to actually have insights. It's really bizarre how accurately most of them seem to channel the warmed-over group think of the people they serve. I hate to use Americans as role models, but, frankly, a certain number of American announcers these days (plus Neville) do the extra work and are able to provide more insight than the average fan. The rest shouldn't be getting paid.
If he'd have said that Villas-Boas makes too many defensively minded substitutions, then I'd have agreed with him completely. He didn't say anything like that, though.
The suggestion that he's obsessed with stats and doesn't get what older players bring to the table just seems baseless and isn't supported by the evidence at hand.
Two glaring examples would be that Gallas and Friedel have been picked ahead of Dawson and, er... other options...
His claim is that the manager pays too much attention to facts and figures and isn't instinctive.
Ok, I can't say that I've noticed that, but what's he basing that on? Perhaps it's just his own instincts, in which case I'd suggest that he pays more attention to the facts and figures!
This came true tonight.
Big month ahead for AVB:
Wigan (could be a slip up)
Man City
Arsenal
Lazio
West Ham
Fulham
Maribor
I think this could shape our season and affect whether the sharks start to circles AVB.
AVB was a dead man walking when he got the job...no pundit, no newspaper and a sizeable chunk of the fans thought it was a mistake (me included)...on top of this the media were all part of team Harry 2 from 8 Redknapp and had their knives out for AVB.
To be honest we've been without Kaboul, BAE, Parker and Adebayor all season and have lost players such as Dembele for a few weeks yet we are 4th in the league...and have our 2nd best start to a premier League season. I'd have taken that back in August.
We now have a big run of important matches coming up so to be honest judgement needs to be held back until after december has gone...
5th -6th in the prem and still in Europe would be good...then the FA Cup starts
4th would be excellent and better than most expected.
I'm warming to him so can forgive the mistakes he's making like tonights subs
To be honest we've been without Kaboul, BAE, Parker and Adebayor all season and have lost players such as Dembele for a few weeks yet we are 4th in the league...and have our 2nd best start to a premier League season. I'd have taken that back in August.
We now have a big run of important matches coming up so to be honest judgement needs to be held back until after december has gone...
5th -6th in the prem and still in Europe would be good...then the FA Cup starts
4th would be excellent and better than most expected.
I'm warming to him so can forgive the mistakes he's making like tonights subs
the one thing against him imo,he has to stop trying to hang on to what we have by making Negitive subsitutions,then i will fully accept him.
Well AVB has definitely gone down in my estimation after last night. First off, he goes back on his promise to try to win every trophy by fielding a a very much weakened front 6. We definitely needed Sandro out there instead of Jake and probably Hudd/Lennon as well from the start. His sub of JV was ridiculous, as was not bringing on earlier JD for Clint.
Anyway, that's the most winnable trophy gone, let's see how we fare in the next two games.
Anyway, that's the most winnable trophy gone, let's see how we fare in the next two games.