Lawro on AVB.

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notsosmartspur

notsosmartspur

Well-Known Member
May 31, 2011
11,612
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My house.
Show me some gut, AVB!

Tottenham manager Andre Villas Boas Mr Clipboard.

Spurs crept back into the top four this weekend with a win at Southampton and Andre Villas-Boas will be desperate to stay there.

While it was a good weekend for them, we will also get spells when they are inconsistent.

My fear about Villas-Boas is that he is all clipboard and computer data, and not enough gut instinct.

He is still a very young manager and perhaps he will learn what some of the older guys have - that indefinable chemistry that gets the best out of players, that inspires, or strikes fear, and gets results.

Spurs are ticking along nicely in the league, but I am yet to be convinced they will stay in the Champions' League places.

I feel Villas Boas has to be a bit more instinct and feeling for the game and players, and a little less football by numbers.
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Can't say I disagree either, however to cut him a little slack, he is hampered in reacting in games with subs due to our better options being injured. There have been signs though that plan B is defensive only.
 
I can't add to Lawro's assessment either especially about the inconsistency which we have shown already ie the two halves. But for me AVB has made a good start and if we buy correctly in the January window will make the CL ,clipboard or gut instinct or whatever.
 
We've lost most of the spine of our team and missed most of what was left through injury, played 3 of last year's top 6 already and we're still in 4th.
I think he's done a decent job, so far.

It's interesting that Lawrenson's criticism is based on pure speculation.
If he'd have picked out something that you could actually assess, then I'd pay more attention to him.
 
PleaseNotPoll said:
We've lost most of the spine of our team and missed most of what was left through injury, played 3 of last year's top 6 already and we're still in 4th.
I think he's done a decent job, so far.

It's interesting that Lawrenson's criticism is based on pure speculation.
If he'd have picked out something that you could actually assess, then I'd pay more attention to him.
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I wouldn't say its criticism, more an observation, who was he planning to bring on when we were 2-1 v Chelsea? nothing speculative about Livermore being ready on the sidelines. Other changes in other matches have had more defence in mind, have you missed that?
 
I have to say I have not been inspired by anything I've seen so far from Spurs but injuries to Kaboul, Ade, Parker, and Dembele have not helped at all. The fact that we are fourth is good and the fact that I missed the Man U game does not help my perception so far.

Still early days.
 
notsosmartspur said:
I wouldn't say its criticism, more an observation, who was he planning to bring on when we were 2-1 v Chelsea? nothing speculative about Livermore being ready on the sidelines. Other changes in other matches have had more defence in mind, have you missed that?
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If he'd have said that Villas-Boas makes too many defensively minded substitutions, then I'd have agreed with him completely. He didn't say anything like that, though.
The suggestion that he's obsessed with stats and doesn't get what older players bring to the table just seems baseless and isn't supported by the evidence at hand.
Two glaring examples would be that Gallas and Friedel have been picked ahead of Dawson and, er... other options... <whistle>

His claim is that the manager pays too much attention to facts and figures and isn't instinctive.
Ok, I can't say that I've noticed that, but what's he basing that on? Perhaps it's just his own instincts, in which case I'd suggest that he pays more attention to the facts and figures! <laugh>
 
PleaseNotPoll said:
If he'd have said that Villas-Boas makes too many defensively minded substitutions, then I'd have agreed with him completely. He didn't say anything like that, though.
The suggestion that he's obsessed with stats and doesn't get what older players bring to the table just seems baseless and isn't supported by the evidence at hand.
Two glaring examples would be that Gallas and Friedel have been picked ahead of Dawson and, er... other options... <whistle>

His claim is that the manager pays too much attention to facts and figures and isn't instinctive.
Ok, I can't say that I've noticed that, but what's he basing that on? Perhaps it's just his own instincts, in which case I'd suggest that he pays more attention to the facts and figures! <laugh>
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Think you're missing the point, without saying substitutions and formation changes during games, what else could 'gut instinct' mean in all honesty. He strikes me very much as a clipboard type, he's no Harry thats for sure! are you really trying to say he's not? Where do you get the 'doesn't get what older players bring' angle, I'm lost as to how you've read that into it. <ok> There really is no need to jump so vociferously to his defence (pun!) I'm not trying to generate a mass slating.
 
I'm still sceptical of him.

As many of you know I wasn't impressed with his appointment and I'd say I'm still on the "yet to be convinvced" side of things.

He hasn't impressed with certain decisions. Bringing Livermore on at 60 mins was a disastrous choice on Sunday. Not only was he woeful but his addition signalled that AVB wanted to shut up shop way too early. Huddlestone wasn't playing brilliant but he wasn't awful either and up until then Southampton had a few attacks but nothing of note, when Jake came on, we didn't have the outlet of using Hudd to spray some passes out wide when on the back foot and therefore our build up play was cack, add to the fact Jake barely won any tackles and misplaced easy passes, it made the second half very awkward to watch. I know if Dembele was fit then the likelihood of him making that change wouldn't have happened but I felt it was a bad decision from the moment Jake's and Hudd's numbers flashed up.

Obviously at the start of the season his two solid DM selection was really p*ssing me off as I'm sure you all noticed <laugh>. I don't think our build up and style of play have been anywhere near the level of what it was under Harry either. I can appreciate we're without Luka and Rafa who were pivotal in our attacks but we've replaced them with more than adequate players and yet somehow, the speed and fluidity just isn't the same as under the Harry era, there seems to be a lot more sideward passing where as last season, it was always about finding the player infront of you.

I also don't like the fact we're keeping Lloris on the bench. It just seems a waste to pay £8m-£12m (whichever the exact fee is) on what many, myself included, would describe as a world class/ borderline world class keeper only to keep him benched. Yes it's all well and good people saying they're sure he'll be the number 1 soon but you have to think of his mind set at the moment, he's used to playing regularly and at the highest of levels, so to join a club as back up to a 41 year old (who hasn't been at his best) isn't doing him the best of good mentally.

Gallas' inclusion is also annoying for me especially as AVB seems to rate him as the number 1 CB, while he's put in 2/3 good performances, he's been woeful in others and I rate Dawson as a better defender and dislike the way he's been shafted aside too.

It's not all been doom and gloom though, the win at Old Trafford was amazing and AVB deserves a huge amount of credit for that, we look a lot better away from home - 3 wins from 4 away in the Prem is an awesome stat, especially when one of them is at Old Trafford!

He's got Defoe playing some of the best football of his career, it's not often Defoe has put in a shift for the TEAM, he always used to work hard but that was for himself to poach some goals, now we're seeing a new link up side to his game and he's kept Ade out deservedly in the lone striking position.

The same goes for Lennon, we're seeing the Azza of old in terms of taking on and beating the full backs and now gives me the confidence to say we don't need a new winger to come straight into the team, just perhaps one to push Bale and Lennon and ensure they don't become complacent.

Overall I'd say AVB has managed to gain a bit of faith from myself, I now don't sit here and think "we're f*cked with him at the helm" but I'm still far from convinced he's a better person to lead us than Redknapp.

Essay complete! <laugh>
 
notsosmartspur said:
Think you're missing the point, without saying substitutions and formation changes during games, what else could 'gut instinct' mean in all honesty. He strikes me very much as a clipboard type, he's no Harry thats for sure! are you really trying to say he's not? Where do you get the 'doesn't get what older players bring' angle, I'm lost as to how you've read that into it. <ok> There really is no need to jump so vociferously to his defence (pun!) I'm not trying to generate a mass slating.
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That is my point, Notso. Saying that he needs to go with his gut instinct is just meaningless, as we don't know whether he's doing that now or not.

Where did I get the bit about older players? Directly from what you've quoted, though I see now that I've misread it. <doh>
Lawrenson's saying that he lacks an indefinable quality about him, which is more meaningless gut talk.
How does he know any of this? What's he basing it on?

The ESPN article that you linked to was spot on. It explained exactly what the author thought Villas-Boas was doing wrong and why.
Lawrenson just seems to be saying that he has a feeling that the manager needs to use the force or something.
His criticism sounds a lot like Yoda, actually. "Use gut instinct more, he must. Hmmm."
 
PNP - Lawro's reference to older guys, is managers mate, not players, he's saying learn from your SAFs, Wengers, and Moyes.

I think both hint the same thing PNP, you just confirming you have real difficulty agreeing with Lawro! <laugh>
 
We haven't been totally convincing yet, it's true but Lawro's reasoning is just a theory based on preconceptions of AVB from his Chelsea days. Maybe I've missed something but apart from the fact that he's done a lot of stats work in the past what's the reasoning for thinking he's making all his decisions based on numbers or that it's a problem? Harry certainly didn't and we struggled far more whilst missing key players.

Personally I think our current style(or lack of it at times) has more to do with inexperience in a lot of our squad and AVB. Most of the players haven't been playing in the league that long and we don't have many who are seasoned Premier League players with Dembele, Ekotto, Kaboul and Parker all out. As much as Caulker, Vertonghen and Sandro are fitting in well we still don't look like we have enough experience and quality on the pitch to play the kind of football AVB wants and he seems to recognise this too.

At the back Gallas is our most experienced player available and most leader like in our usual starting 11 this season but he tires when we need his leadership and experience most which is a big problem for us. AVB doesn't seem to think Dawson will fit in well to the system he wants to play, which I understand but I do think AVB underrates him. With Ekotto supposed to be coming back in the next couple of weeks I'd like to see Gallas benched and Vertonghen moved back to the centre as captain. It's a bit risky but I think Jan should be encouraged to take charge of the defence as he fits most naturally into AVB's perferred style out of all of our centre backs(even Kaboul) and there's only so long we can spend putting in okay performances and riding our luck a bit.

I've not got too much problem with being a bit cautious and trying to defend leads but I think we need to work on relieving pressure. The trouble at the moment is that Defoe isn't that well suited to holding up the ball and Livermore is struggling to get to grips with games. Parker and Ade would do these roles much better and if we were breaking up play better and keeping the ball up top better we'd find that it's not as defensive as we think. Another thing I'd like to see is us "see saw" our wingers when we're in defence. At the moment both are tracking back at the sametime and often not even needed, when they're attacking down our left I'd like to see Lennon staying further up the pitch and getting himself in a good position to break and vice versa with Bale.

In short, we're not showing the kind of football we want to see from Spurs for more than periods in games but AVB seems like a good bloke and whilst we're doing well in the league and the players are backing him I'm more than happy for him to continue. It's difficult to judge him too much on a short period of time, most managers need 2/3 transfer windows to get the kind of squad they want together and so far AVB has had 1.
 
notsosmartspur said:
PNP - Lawro's reference to older guys, is managers mate, not players, he's saying learn from your SAFs, Wengers, and Moyes.

I think both hint the same thing PNP, you just confirming you have real difficulty agreeing with Lawro! <laugh>
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I'm disagreeing with Lawrenson because he's not actually saying anything. Reminds me of his appearances on MOTD, actually.

He's not actually saying that he should learn from those managers, Notso. He's saying that he should pick up something indefinable from them.
The suggestion is that he needs to make more decisions based upon what he feels, rather than what he knows.
I don't know how Lawrenson's judging that, though. How does he know which decisions are based upon feelings and which are based upon knowledge?
 
Lawro is a complete twat, never forget that.

For all of his observations about AVB, Lawro hasn't come out with the excuse that he often applies to those clubs who he think will be in the CL places, when they don't look convincing, namely "winning when you're not playing well is what you have to do to win things, Gary."

It's funny how, when it's Spurs who are winning without looking convincing, it's down to the manager being a bit green. Remember the "fantastic start to the season" that Arsenal have had? Well, look at the table, Lawro, and you'll find that we're ahead of them, yet you don't slag Whinger off for being green.

Sorry, but I cannot take anything Lawro says seriously. He is and always will be a complete numpty, in my book*.

















* the book is entitled, "How To Spot A Complete Numpty At 20 Paces," and is available from selected outlets.
 
notso I read your link and feel that AVB has to be cautious at the moment. He's new and lost his job at Chelsea after a few months so it's right imo to be cautious and build up to the attacking play with more positives slowly. Lawro is judging him too early and I feel that once AVB finds his feet and gains experience the positive results will come. He must feel under enormous pressure.
 
i think the only thing that is 'missing' if you want to call it that which would have the media frothing is the free flowing football we were used to seeing. That had been replaced by a solid structured game..quite mechanical with glimpses of flair. Its definately a new Tottenham and one that intrigues me. Results have been in the main positive and no matter how it is dressed by the media to make it look like a stutter,a purple patch,not good enough to maintain the challenge..the fact is that AVB has done a solid job and has slapped a few faces who doubted him based merely on what Chelsea players said.....they dont lie do they <whistle>

people are expecting almost perfect decision making by AVB in order to actually say they are impressed but that is a bit far fetched and impossible.

Our first 11 is very impressive and to be 5 points off the top with the backbone of our team missing is a +1 for AVB.
 
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