Wonga
- Thread starter Randy712
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Funny isn't it how NUFC are called to task over the morality of business within football?
While other teams are sponsored by gambling companies without a flicker of fuss and the BARCLAYS Premier League is monopolised by the biggest swindlers going in Sky TV.
"A city like Newcastle and the region should not have any ties with an organisation like Wonga", insists Wansbeck MP Ian Lavery – a season ticket holder at St James' Park and regular bandwagon jumper.
"This business makes profits off the back of deprived people who are desperate and who are the most vulnerable in society."
Yeah, and I can tell you another business that has been making scandalous profits from often desperate, devoted working class people for years mate... It's called FOOTBALL.
While other teams are sponsored by gambling companies without a flicker of fuss and the BARCLAYS Premier League is monopolised by the biggest swindlers going in Sky TV.
"A city like Newcastle and the region should not have any ties with an organisation like Wonga", insists Wansbeck MP Ian Lavery – a season ticket holder at St James' Park and regular bandwagon jumper.
"This business makes profits off the back of deprived people who are desperate and who are the most vulnerable in society."
Yeah, and I can tell you another business that has been making scandalous profits from often desperate, devoted working class people for years mate... It's called FOOTBALL.
Somebodys pinched my sombrero
Well-Known Member
I know it's probably none of my business but what is the fuss re the Wonga deal?
I get they prey on the poor with extortionate interest rights but why is that any better than say
a) Gambling Companies (all surveys suggest they prey on the poor)
b) Alcohol Companies
c) Companies like NIKE who have been linked to child labour in various parts of the world?
They are all as bad as each other along with the likes of Coke (linked to death squads in Columbia who have murdered trade union organisers there) and McDonalds (low wages, no union rights, health issues) both of who sponsor major football events in football.
If those complaining were serious they'd complain about these companies too.
I get they prey on the poor with extortionate interest rights but why is that any better than say
a) Gambling Companies (all surveys suggest they prey on the poor)
b) Alcohol Companies
c) Companies like NIKE who have been linked to child labour in various parts of the world?
They are all as bad as each other along with the likes of Coke (linked to death squads in Columbia who have murdered trade union organisers there) and McDonalds (low wages, no union rights, health issues) both of who sponsor major football events in football.
If those complaining were serious they'd complain about these companies too.
All the more reason to take a stand against it, and make the club something to be proud of.
Its not for the fans to take a stand on what is the correct sponsor. There are bodies responsible for making those judgement's and guidelines in place. I'd prefer we weren't in bed with them and some bluechip company had offered the same money. They obviously haven't and its just business. They need to bridge the gap with the top boys commercially and will stretch the boundaries. Its not ideal but I'm not sure its something for anyone to jump up and down about or call on the club to make a stand.
Seems someone has fallen for the stadium renaming trick to appease them... hmmm...
And for me therein lies the problem with English football. We talk about the way the German game is run - all clubs have to be at least 50% owned by the fans, a season ticket for Borussia Dortmund costs £144 a year, there are restrictions on obviously outlandish spending. How brilliant would that be over here? But it takes clubs and supporters to stick together -
"Three years ago, the 50% + 1 rule was challenged by Hannover 96, whose president had visions of Premier League-style stock market flotations, but the Bundesliga clubs solidly upheld it, by 32 votes to Hannover's one (three clubs abstained)."
Instead of just saying, like City and Chelsea fans before us - **** you I don't care because we have loads of money and you don't.
"German football is not perfect but we do not want to be like England, where the clubs are owned by one rich man who puts money in. That causes inflation and instability, and it is in the spirit of clubs for there to be democracy."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/sep/21/german-english-football-recovery
http://www.economist.com/blogs/gametheory/2012/05/german-football-success
Not for the fans as I've already said. Its for the league and FA (possibly government to intervene) and put measures in place. The fans can't do anything while the rules remain in place which allow these kind of deals. Basically I think it is pie in the sky to hope this will change. We've created a monster in the PL and hoping that the billionnaire fat cats are going to be challenged by our weak FA is just not reality.
I agree there are many better models around but don't hold your breath on change!
It would certainly help the national team too which was one of the main reasons for the change in Germany.
And when would the league/fa/government intervene? If the fans demanded it as a whole.
I don't understand why MPs are taking a moral high ground about Newcastle having Wonga as a sponsor.
Ignoring the ethical issues with high interest short term lending for a moment. What's the difference between Newcastle players wearing Wonga and Sky having Wonga adverts on in between halfs for a match? What's the difference between every channel and every newspaper taking money off Wonga to advertise? A couple of years ago Wonga paid for the buses in London to run until later in the morning over New Year's Day/Eve, there was a couple of idiots getting on their high horse about it then too but it was soon forgotten. I'm sure the MPs will turn their attention to the next storm in a tea cup they see brewing soon enough.
Anyway, Wonga aren't the only company to make a lot of money in the short term loans market and from what I understand they are one of the best in terms of following the rules set out for such lending. If the MPs don't think what Wonga does is so immoral then they should spend their time trying to change the law, like they're paid to do rather than simply whinging when one legitimate business accepts sponsorship money from another legitimate business.
I just feel sorry for you guys having Wonga on your shirt, it's a bit embarrassing. Spurs fans know all about this, we had our kits made by Pony for several years.
Ignoring the ethical issues with high interest short term lending for a moment. What's the difference between Newcastle players wearing Wonga and Sky having Wonga adverts on in between halfs for a match? What's the difference between every channel and every newspaper taking money off Wonga to advertise? A couple of years ago Wonga paid for the buses in London to run until later in the morning over New Year's Day/Eve, there was a couple of idiots getting on their high horse about it then too but it was soon forgotten. I'm sure the MPs will turn their attention to the next storm in a tea cup they see brewing soon enough.
Anyway, Wonga aren't the only company to make a lot of money in the short term loans market and from what I understand they are one of the best in terms of following the rules set out for such lending. If the MPs don't think what Wonga does is so immoral then they should spend their time trying to change the law, like they're paid to do rather than simply whinging when one legitimate business accepts sponsorship money from another legitimate business.
I just feel sorry for you guys having Wonga on your shirt, it's a bit embarrassing. Spurs fans know all about this, we had our kits made by Pony for several years.
I'm guessing it's because a club is meant to be something different from a company. I'm not sure how true that is, but I suppose a club is meant to represent its members, it's meant to be part of the local community, so who invests in it, sponsors it etc is a little more important.
You're right about the MPs though, maybe if they looked into the reasons why people were using these companies as well, that might be a start.
If sponsorship from a loan company is unethical for a club, so are gambling companies and so are alcohol sponsors who make huge profits off vulnerable addicts amongst other things. Yet every club in the Premier League(and probably the Football League) has a gambling sponsor and a beer sponsor.
Also these kind of sponsors that are trying to sell to the fans(rather than Investec and Aurasma who we have) aren't trying to get new customers for the market, rather direct customers who are already in the market to their brand/product rather than another. It's like, if you don't like ale you're not going to start drinking Newcastle Brown Ale just because your team's sponsored by them but it will probably pursuade a good portion of fans that already drink a similar product.
All of this "They prey on the poor" bullshit is getting a little monotonous as well.
Let's look at it this way...do they actually prey on the poor? If a person takes a pay day loan are they poor or are they just a bit short and could do with a few quid before pay day? I've never used one but not because I'm loaded, I'm not, it's because I'm not ****ing stupid. If ever I found myself with a £0 bank balance with bills to pay, I know I've messed up my priorities somewhere along the line, because I can't afford to feed myself, that's a direct result of being stupid, not poor. If I relied on a payday loan company from month to month to see me get by, I'm clever enough to know that eventually I will end up with a big chunk of my earnings being eaten up by interest rates, as it has spiralled out of my control, that's also a direct result of me being stupid.
If I have £100 in my account, and need £100 to live off until payday, then my mate asks me if I want to go to the pub I'll say no. The people who need this service are people with bad credit, not necessarily poor people, just people who have at one point in their lives, mismanaged their finances. We've all done it at some point, but to do it beyond repair and then still not learn your lessons, that's again, stupid.
Wonga, just like Yes Car Credit and hundreds of other companies out there, they prey on the stupid and fair play to them, it's probably one of the most lucrative markets in the UK.
It didn't happen as much to our parents, grandparents and so on, because their world wasn't obsessed with consumerism and greed. They borrowed £10 off a bloke in the pub to see them through the week.
Let's look at it this way...do they actually prey on the poor? If a person takes a pay day loan are they poor or are they just a bit short and could do with a few quid before pay day? I've never used one but not because I'm loaded, I'm not, it's because I'm not ****ing stupid. If ever I found myself with a £0 bank balance with bills to pay, I know I've messed up my priorities somewhere along the line, because I can't afford to feed myself, that's a direct result of being stupid, not poor. If I relied on a payday loan company from month to month to see me get by, I'm clever enough to know that eventually I will end up with a big chunk of my earnings being eaten up by interest rates, as it has spiralled out of my control, that's also a direct result of me being stupid.
If I have £100 in my account, and need £100 to live off until payday, then my mate asks me if I want to go to the pub I'll say no. The people who need this service are people with bad credit, not necessarily poor people, just people who have at one point in their lives, mismanaged their finances. We've all done it at some point, but to do it beyond repair and then still not learn your lessons, that's again, stupid.
Wonga, just like Yes Car Credit and hundreds of other companies out there, they prey on the stupid and fair play to them, it's probably one of the most lucrative markets in the UK.
It didn't happen as much to our parents, grandparents and so on, because their world wasn't obsessed with consumerism and greed. They borrowed £10 off a bloke in the pub to see them through the week.
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