great post. sod it - best post ever i get the distinct feeling that the worst thing that could have happened last season was staying up so comfortably. my expectations didn't go up but it seems that many fans did raise theirs. we are trying to finish 17th or better. we aren't trying to beat last seasons total or position - that is a massive ask. not impossible but unlikely. we were expected to go down last year and upset the applecart. we're expected to go down this year - maybe we won't be able to upset the applecart this time. that's football. i suspect we'd be having similar issues had lambert stayed though difficult to say as we may have different personnel. i think he'd have tried to sort the defence out, so we'd probably be having indifferent results as a result! we all want what is best for our club but you have to walk before you can run. i really don't understand what some people want - do they want us to win something this year or do they simply want us to stay up and go again next season? fact is, because we aren't a big club in this league, this is what almost every season will be like if we keep staying up. until our ground is expanded and we fill it week in, week out, therefore giving us greater revenue at our disposal, we will be a bottom half top flight side at best. this is not a bad time to be a norwich fan - in fact, its a good time! these are good times!! we're about to become debt free, we've got one of the best squads we've had for years, we've got a young side, full of potential, an up and coming manager who was courted by west brom lets not forget (they couldn't agree compensation)... some people need to pull themselves together. this season was always likely to be touch and go and so far it looks like that will be the case, but there are other teams in the same boat and more importantly, there's more than three of them. get behind the team and manager. if you don't it will only end in tears.
Well said robbie - I´ve been voicing (and versing) the same sort of thing for weeks, so it´s good to know I´m not entirely alone with that view, but it does seem as if trying to retain a modicum of optimism and belief that things will turn round, is almost beyond the pale.
rbf, with some we're either bloody brilliant or bloody useless! most of the time, we're somewhere in between, which is often a good place to be. oh to be 'steady'
Both Robbie and Supers are correct - what happened last year raised expectations which were never going to materialise even if Lambert had stayed. In fact, as I have said before, Lambert realised that we had completely over achieved and got out whilst his reputation was still high and intact. The problem with that though was the squad had been built by and around Lambert and the new Manager has different requirements. Every year we stay in the Premiership is a bonus and we are never going to become an ' established ' Premiership Club even if we expand our ground to a greater capacity. We will eventually go down again whether it be this year, next year or thereafter. I have been saying that I think it will be this year long before the season started mainly because I feel that the Premiership this year is a lot stronger. The 3 Clubs that went down were 3 Clubs in crisis that had overstayed their welcome in the Premiership - we do not have 3 such Clubs this year. The 3 Clubs who came up have got the same enthusiasm as we had but also money to spend and the basis of decent Premiership squads. The mid table teams strengthened their squads with proven Premiership players whereas we were forced by financial restraint to search in the bargain basement. That is not necessarily a bad thing but, as I said earlier regarding Butterfield you have no guarantees that they will develop into solid Premiership players. Whilst I also raised doubts as to whether our squad was ' far stronger ' than last year it certainly isn't weaker but to survive this year I think it needs a better squad than we have got. Only time will tell but if we manage to finish 17th this year I think it will be a greater achievement than where we finished last year. My only disagreement with you Supers is ' it will end in tears ' I do not think that going down with this Manager, this squad, debt free and with the parachute payments is tears. I would prefer to stay up but I don't think it will be a disaster if we don't.
surely there is some possibility that we can become established, be it like a fulham or similar? i think it is going to be difficult especially with the rich getting richer. i suppose if you look at wba they have had a few relegations, but they are pretty much a regular and are a similar size club to us.
also, i think the people on here are relatively uplifting compared to the pink un site! christ most of them are doom-mongers. go on there if you want cheering up
Survival is the objective - 17th or above is the aim and if we achieve that it is a job well done. I said at the beginning of the season that we will finish 16th and despite Saturday's horror show (and it was horrible in my opinion) I still think we will achieve a 16th placed position. I genuienly believe there are about 6 - 8 other clubs that will be involved in a tussle to stay in the division and that these clubs will run into a period of bad form that will see them drop points. Apart from Saturday and the opening day pasting at Fulham we've been playing well but not getting the breaks - they will come and then we should start to see the club consolidating again. It won't be easy - tactics and formations have to change - we've all voiced our opinions on what we'd like to see and who we'd like to see in the team and it will be interesting to see what Hughton does in the coming games. Ironically I think Saturday's debacle could work in our favour and while I can't see us getting anything out of the Chelsea game I am confident of getting a point at least off the Gunners and that in itself will be a confidence boost for the "big" match the following week. QPR lost last night ......
I think the best either of our clubs can hope for is akin to what WBA has achieved. anything more is just a pipe dream.
I think the best ipswich can look at for a good example is Barnsley. Hanging on in the championship season after season. They are like the Wigan of The championship.
WBA?? I bloody hope not! Even if (dare I say when?) Ipswich make a return to the top flight the aspirations should extend beyond that level. While the Baggies have done okay (this time round) they are still not a nailed on mid-table team and that is what we should be looking to achieve in the medium term. Maybe WBA will become that kind of team but it's a little early to be sure. Fulham are a brilliant example of what can be achieved after a little time in the PL and I would suggest they are the bench-mark to be striving for.
have you beef with WBA thai? i don't mind them to be honest, the only one of the 4 midlands clubs i do. seem to be well run. Fulham would be good, what they do have is MAF who has surely put quite a bit of money into that squad over the years. From what i have heard though is that it's less now than in the past as they are established - obviously it helps when you can sell you best 2 players for £10m+ each.
I have no problem what so ever with the Baggies but do believe that if you are going to set a benchmark it should be a little higher. I will not say they have not done well because they have everything, considered and perhaps as a short term objective, matching what they have done so far would be no bad thing but few businesses survive by focusing on short term objectives, hence the aim should be higher (without stretching the possibilities too far)
i think guru is right on this to a degree, though i think fulham are the bench mark for all clubs like ourselves. long term survival and even prosperity on a smaller scale is possible - west brom too are a good example but slightly different as they have yo-yo'd. if possible, the fulham ideal is the scenario we'd like but we shouldn't be dismissive of bouncing up and down.
Thats exactly my point supers, there are probably only stoke and fulham who have gone up and stayed without the yoyo effect. realistically you (and if we are lucky enough) will go up, go down hoping to to bounce straight up again and get a bit more established like WBA. They also did this without major investment & play a nice style, thats why i pick WBA as the club to look to.
i think wba have bounced straight back with the 2 or 3 relegations they suffered since they went up with us in 2004. fair play Thai
quick point to 1950: my line 'it'll only end in tears' was nothing to do with hughton or even relegation. it was to do with fans over-expectations - they are the ones who will come to tears. wasn't very clear, sorry!
yep, stoke are another good example guru. they've followed the fulham model more closely whilst i think at the moment, due to finance restrictions (which stoke and fulham did not have) we are more closely matched to west brom. nothing wrong with that and it certainly doesn't mean we'll go down! teams like bolton and charlton who survived a good decade comfortably in the top flight both went down and bounced back before they got cosy at the top table. i don't like this 'fear' that a few of our fans have, whereby if we were to go down, which we could, its the 'end' in some way. far from it - the club will be debt free for the first time, well, probably ever! we'll have four years parachute payments which if used wisely, and i would trust hughton to do that, would make us a stronger side than we are even this season. players may leave but it wouldn't require wholesale changes, more tinkering. we are, as a club, in a very good place, even if the table says we are in the bottom three. we sell out every single week, we have a huge waiting list for season tickets which i doubt would be damaged if we were to go down. i still think we'll stay up - i think it will be close, but anyone who thought we'd survive comfortably again must have either extreme faith or need a reality check. its a bloody difficult league this year! we are far from doomed... the club has possibly never been healthier. i just wish some of our fans could look at the bigger picture sometimes
You should nip over to the QPR board, There is one guy on there who still thinks they will be in the europe positions at the end of this season. That is even after last nights result.
there's pessimists, there's optimists, then there's qpr fans i've not looked on their page but i imagine they are even more split than we are. they'll have some who think europe and others who think they'll go bust in two weeks time. very little realism on there. coming back to going bust though, there is a strong rumour emanating from the media that their extremely wealthy backer, mittal, is selling up to fernandes... they'd suddenly go from having one of the wealthiest men in the world backing them to a relatively poor fernandes in pretty much total ownership. pompey mark II has been mentioned many a time on here and if that rumour is true, it could happen judging by their poor start this year. we shall see - could be bollocks.
