Systems football(tiki taka)

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Soopermack said:
Really interesting read for those who want to understand how Barcelona play the way they do. Is this the way MH wants us to play this year? If so then we don't need to worry about defenders because everyone is both a defender and an outlet for possession...

http://www.eplindex.com/16473/systems-football-the-basics-tiki-taka-totaal-voetball.html
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Very good stuff and if anyone can't see how MH can got us to play from the back and keep the ball then wise up because the modern game is now all about this style.
 
I've only just returned from holidaying in Cyprus. Whilst there I met a Pompey season ticket holder and who also happened to be one of the Southern Counties scouts for Chelsea.

He says that all the scouts were called into Cobham for a briefing. All of the powerful African lads in their academy are apparently being released. They have now been told to target slighter, quicker and more technically gifted players regardless of their height.

He also said that having quick and relentless full/wing backs who can get up and down the flanks will become the most valuable commodity in football as they are like gold dust.
The current trend is pointing towards playing three in defence, three revolving midfielders and the two wing-backs with a flexible two up top.

Of course this is only one of the systems that can be employed during a game, but it is one of the main ones that Chelsea are trying to instill into their youngsters with more focus on ball retention.

Is Sparky thinking of doing the same? Maybe not yet, but it does seem to be the current trend of late.
 
Hughes has always played percentage football, ie take no chances and put it into the box.
Id give up my season ticket if we played like swansea. You could go for a slash and come back to find out we still havent crossed the halfway line.

I hope we dont end up with a bunch of player like Neymar who have skill but fall to the ground every time players come within 3 feet of them, physicality should be allowed and players are allowed to shoulder opponents off the ball but its always called a foul. Football is become like ice hockey would be if checking was removed.
 
I don't really like the way football is going, to be honest. I mean, I can watch Barcelona and enjoy it but the physical contact element is being pushed out by play acting, tactical diving and gullible referees.

Yes, it's easy to create another sport where there is more space and less physical contact so you can knock it about for hours and find all sorts of passes. But I prefer physical games where it's not just about ball control and close passing but also physical effort.

I guess what I'm saying is that the way some modern teams are playing isn't wrong, if that's where they want the sport to go. But it is changing things and football is not what it was in it's history. It's become a different sport, in a way. I would prefer it to have a good balance of old and new.

Most of all, I want referees to be trained more appropriately so that they are tough on cheaters and play actors and can spot them out better, too.
 
Flippy Flappy or whatever its called is all good in theory, except lets not forget, the only reason Barcelona and Spain play so well and make Nippy Nappy look so good, is because they have a squad full of amazing players.

Great players make the system work, not the other way round......or something like that. Read it on the back of a cereal packet
 
awjm said:
I don't really like the way football is going, to be honest. I mean, I can watch Barcelona and enjoy it but the physical contact element is being pushed out by play acting, tactical diving and gullible referees.

Yes, it's easy to create another sport where there is more space and less physical contact so you can knock it about for hours and find all sorts of passes. But I prefer physical games where it's not just about ball control and close passing but also physical effort.

I guess what I'm saying is that the way some modern teams are playing isn't wrong, if that's where they want the sport to go. But it is changing things and football is not what it was in it's history. It's become a different sport, in a way. I would prefer it to have a good balance of old and new.

Most of all, I want referees to be trained more appropriately so that they are tough on cheaters and play actors and can spot them out better, too.
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AJ..dont really agree with the jist of the post, but, THIS my friens is spot on the money !!
 
Hense why we dont need a target man, see HH thread. Its the old way of playing and while we wont exactly become Barcelona the idea of quick movement and passing the ball around and changing positions is definitely a way Hughes will want to adopt going forward I am sure.
 
awjm said:
I don't really like the way football is going, to be honest. I mean, I can watch Barcelona and enjoy it but the physical contact element is being pushed out by play acting, tactical diving and gullible referees.

Yes, it's easy to create another sport where there is more space and less physical contact so you can knock it about for hours and find all sorts of passes. But I prefer physical games where it's not just about ball control and close passing but also physical effort.

I guess what I'm saying is that the way some modern teams are playing isn't wrong, if that's where they want the sport to go. But it is changing things and football is not what it was in it's history. It's become a different sport, in a way. I would prefer it to have a good balance of old and new.

Most of all, I want referees to be trained more appropriately so that they are tough on cheaters and play actors and can spot them out better, too.
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You're right, I think a balance between old and new would be good. The main problem is have with this system, and why I sometimes get a bit bored watching barca and Spain is all their plays seem the same, like once you've seen one goal you've seen them all. But I will always prefer it to kick and run. Watching Wycombe this was dreadful. I know our players are much better than theirs, but there was no pressure on them to win, yet they didn't even try to play on the ground! It's still a great read.
 
awjm said:
Yes, it's easy to create another sport where there is more space and less physical contact so you can knock it about for hours and find all sorts of passes. But I prefer physical games where it's not just about ball control and close passing but also physical effort.
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Same here, i remember a couple of years ago we had a ref at LR who refused to give fouls for anything short of GBH. Diving and play acting was cut out completely and it was a really physical game and great fun to watch.

20 years ago someone like Neymar wouldnt have even made it in local football as hes so gutless, hes have been kicked out of every game and that is preferable to this.
[video=youtube;LpGi-hWKrPY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpGi-hWKrPY&feature=player_embedded[/video]
 
Carlos Valderama's Hairy Saddlebags said:
Flippy Flappy or whatever its called is all good in theory, except lets not forget, the only reason Barcelona and Spain play so well and make Nippy Nappy look so good, is because they have a squad full of amazing players.

Great players make the system work, not the other way round......or something like that. Read it on the back of a cereal packet
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I disagree with you there mate, it's all about coaching and the right kind of players. Spain have half the real Madrid team yet they play the barca way. Obviously the top players will win more but most players can play the system...
 
The game my friends is changing and changing fast ... 20 years ago I went on tour to France with my team and we were full of bulldog spirit etc ... In front of around a crowd of 4,000 we were made to look like donkeys ... why they would't let us near the ball and it stunned the **** out of us and we hand't lost a game in over a year. We lost 3-1 and yes it was frustrating and the game seemed to last forever. Our second game was against a side and we were to be honest all drunk from the night before! ... we allowed the pace of the game to dictate our play and played out a 1-1 draw. the remaining games we played tippy tappy and were thrashed 3-0 and 5-1 ... however we all knew we learnt something ... we used that later on and became more successful. I support QPR because the club has always been associated with neat football ... I have no time for target men and wingers ...its a dinosaur game and that football will not win anything in todays game with today rules. If QPR are to go forward then IMO we need to embrace the type and style of football that does it. The Swans last year were nothing short of outstanding and the very reason that Liverpool are looking at Rogers to repeat that style at Anfield. Any team wanting to climb inside the top ten will have no choice but to re invent their game ... If you want that football then you need to be watching League 2 or below and even that is going the same way.
 
Except weve already proved how you hammer teams like that if they try it with ordinary players.

I hope every top 10 team tries it because it will mean more points for us.
 
Flyer, ive never seen that vid of the dive and its terrible..to me thats a straight red to Neymar..if only video tech was involved in the game eh?

Personally, if was the defender who got the yellow, I'd go over and hammer him and take the red card....!..to**er...

and before others say it, i know its part of the game,....doesnt make it right though...
 
Queenslander!! said:
Flyer, ive never seen that vid of the dive and its terrible..to me thats a straight red to Neymar..if only video tech was involved in the game eh?

Personally, if was the defender who got the yellow, I'd go over and hammer him and take the red card....!..to**er...

and before others say it, i know its part of the game,....doesnt make it right though...
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Its sad isnt it? Plus he play acted hurt and yet not a thing was done about it. To me thats as bad as taking drugs as its just blatant cheating.

Use video evidence either during the game or after and give a 3 game ban for 1st dive and add on an extra game for each further dive. Sadly its just going to get worse and worse instead.
 
Flyer said:
Its sad isnt it? Plus he play acted hurt and yet not a thing was done about it. To me thats as bad as taking drugs as its just blatant cheating.

Use video evidence either during the game or after and give a 3 game ban for 1st dive and add on an extra game for each further dive. Sadly its just going to get worse and worse instead.
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Unfortunately flyer, the big problem with your argument is that top players and pundits from Spain and Italy have publicly stated that not only is cheating and diving accepted, it's actively encouraged and coached. They see it as part of their culture. Heard it all on talk sport a while back. It stinks......
 
I think the point I took from the article is the fact that getting your youth players to play a system is more important in the long run than getting them to win at all costs (that comes later on). That system should ultimately be the one that the Senior team is playing otherwise you're just breeding footballers for the sake of it with no real purpose.

For us to improve, it is vital to get the academy up and running (and instill a suitable philosophy that will see us through the next 15-20 years).

Comments about Barcelona being blessed with great players is true but they also have brought most of these players through (generally about 7 or 8 of them have come through the youth system). Fair enough that they can attract the best players into the academy but the results we see are well over a decade in the making (and Barca were good but not world beaters around 2000).

I'd also say, though, that just because it has made Barca the best team in the world does not mean that it should automatically be the adopted style of everyone moving forward (in which case it will end up being a race to see who can beat that system rather than play it). They lack height and width and their defenders go AWOL (the number of times Pique ends up having a shot at goal when they're one goal up in the last 10 mins is alarming) but, currently their ball retention masks most of it (I do still love watching Barca play though).

Also, the article rightly says that the formation isn't too important. Perhaps I'm too sentimental but I'd hate to see wingers leave the game completely (well it doesn't really happen - like most things in life it goes through cycles so would be back eventually). I remember Giggs and Kanchelskis on the wings for United in the early 90s and that was as entertaining as anything today (with a real driving, direct purpose).

Love to know Bob's thoughts on this as a coach.
 
I remember, not so long ago, when Jim Magilton took over. He absolutely FORCED the team to play passing on the ground and at first the team were very wobbly, losing the ball and getting into awkward situations, simply because they weren't used to it or confident in it. But Magilton stuck to his guns and I remember us, after about 3 games, starting to play some brilliant passing football. So, it can be done. It's all about confidence, having a plan and learning about your team mates. And obviously some skill, too. But players in the top two or three leagues of this country are good enough to play some consistent passing football.
 
Flyer said:
I hope every top 10 team tries it because it will mean more points for us.
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They already are you silly bugger! the Swans have taken it a step further maybe a step too far but with a team of unknown players (rubbish players in some eyes not mime) they completely outplayed (at times) the top six teams
 
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