SSN Special Report: Ukraine's Hooligans

[Tony Montana]

Anyone seen this? Interesting watch but I don't think the Ukrainian neo-Nazis will be as bad or organised as they make out. Having said that I think a lot of English fans will be put off going and I don't think we'll have a big following out there.

Do you think that previous events at tournaments such as euro 2000 have given English fans a bad reputation? Does it make us a target for groups like the Ukrainian ultras and will English fans be treated differently to other fans even though the organisers have said that all will be treated equally?

Finally is anyone on here going or know anyone that is planning to go?

 

[----HistoryRepeating----]

Did you see them arrange that fight......then get beaten up? They looked well crap, probably the same as our thugs, just drunken wanna-b-hard men.

 

[OddRiverOakWizards]

No thanks, Ukraine is a crazy place these days with the opposition leader under arrest and being refused international medical treatment, it looks like one of the most precarious places left in Europe. Poland also has fairly strong right wing groups and I remember what happened in 2006 when they came up against the Germans.

 

[breconsaint]

No thanks, Ukraine is a crazy place these days with the opposition leader under arrest and being refused international medical treatment, it looks like one of the most precarious places left in Europe. Poland also has fairly strong right wing groups and I remember what happened in 2006 when they came up against the Germans.

What about 1939 when they came up against the Germans?

 

[JDub]

Why these Eastern European countries have such extreme and seemingly popular right-wing political followings somewhat baffles me...

 

[JDub]

Surely they'd want to be as far away from the right-wing and left-wing at the same time? Unless they hate communism that much that they're willing to embrace the views of an extreme party that did disgusting things to their people.

 

[Beef]

Ukraine is ****ed up, there was a better programme about it on BBC. They have already said there will be Russian gangs joining up with them.

They also said white English people will be ok aslong as they show respect. But black and asian etc shouldn't go as they will be beaten up or worse.

Truth is if you have watched any of the shows about hooligans etc, Ukraine, Poland and Russia are the worse by far.

On the BBC programme they even said how the former Shaktar owner was blown up by a bomb in 2009, in his own stadium.

* Edit the bombing was in 1995 not 2009.

 

[OddRiverOakWizards]

If you think Terry is bad (allegedly) then wait until the summer at the games :s.

 

[Joe!]

Why these Eastern European countries have such extreme and seemingly popular right-wing political followings somewhat baffles me...

Poor education and right-wing tendencies have a very strong correlation, so I'd start with that. Then there's the reactionary element - communism didn't work out so well so they all jump to its polar opposite.

 

[JDub]

Ukraine is ****ed up, there was a better programme about it on BBC. They have already said there will be Russian gangs joining up with them.

They also said white English people will be ok aslong as they show respect. But black and asian etc shouldn't go as they will be beaten up or worse.

Truth is if you have watched any of the shows about hooligans etc, Ukraine, Poland and Russia are the worse by far.

On the BBC programme they even said how the former Shaktar owner was blown up by a bomb in 2009, in his own stadium.

Well.. Erm... Let's hope we don't draw Shaktar Donetsk in the group stages of the Europa League in the 2013/2014 season .. :|

 

[JDub]

Poor education and right-wing tendencies have a very strong correlation, so I'd start with that. Then there's the reactionary element - communism didn't work out so well so they all jump to its polar opposite.

The reactionary element links in with your statement of poor education. If they had a decent education system which could be accessed by all, perhaps they wouldn't be so reactionary and become.. well.. more moderate.

 

[Joe!]

The reactionary element links in with your statement of poor education. If they had a decent education system which could be accessed by all, perhaps they wouldn't be so reactionary and become.. well.. more moderate.

Yeah, but then again some people just can't be taught. Most votes cast in this country are reactionary, hence the useless two-party system, and we have a pretty decent education system (on relative terms).

 

[JDub]

Yeah, but then again some people just can't be taught. Most votes cast in this country are reactionary, hence the useless two-party system, and we have a pretty decent education system (on relative terms).

Yeh, but they're not reactionary enough to get psycho parties like the BNP elected. This may be due to the higher level of education in our country - everyone sort of just knows extreme parties are a no-go....

 

[Joe!]

Yeh, but they're not reactionary enough to get psycho parties like the BNP elected. This may be due to the higher level of education in our country - everyone sort of just knows extreme parties are a no-go....

This is true, but we also haven't had the same sort of turmoil that some of these countries have had, what with the countless invasions, the Nazi Germany thing, the Soviet Union thing, the Yugoslavia thing. This country hasn't been invaded in a very long time and hasn't had fascism or communism forced upon it, therefore we're used to being incredibly moderate. What does baffle me though is how a far-right party has gained such popularity in France.

 

[JDub]

This is true, but we also haven't had the same sort of turmoil that some of these countries have had, what with the countless invasions, the Nazi Germany thing, the Soviet Union thing, the Yugoslavia thing. This country hasn't been invaded in a very long time and hasn't had fascism or communism forced upon it, therefore we're used to being incredibly moderate. What does baffle me though is how a far-right party has gained such popularity in France.

Yep, Nazism and indeed Communism and any other extremist parties would be more likely to gain power/followers in a country constantly in turmoil both socially and economically.

The French are indeed baffling.

 

[St. Luigi Scrosoppi]

The reactionary element links in with your statement of poor education. If they had a decent education system which could be accessed by all, perhaps they wouldn't be so reactionary and become.. well.. more moderate.

I've had a good education and I am far from moderate. In fact my political views are quite extreme and far from rational. The better educated you are the more likely you are to adopt left wing views.

 

[TBD]

I've had a good education and I am far from moderate. In fact my political views are quite extreme and far from rational. The better educated you are the more likely you are to adopt left wing views.

The current cabinet are all extremely well educated there not left wing. I tend to think extreme left wing tendencies come about in young idealistic people. People move to the right when they have more to loose and become more cynical.

 

[St. Luigi Scrosoppi]

The current cabinet are all extremely well educated there not left wing. I tend to think extreme left wing tendencies come about in young idealistic people. People move to the right when they have more to loose and become more cynical.

I am incredibly cynical and I am sure that had I received a public school education I would have considered myself a natural leader of our country. As it is I had a very tough working class upbringing in a very frightening and austere time and have witnessed the suffering of ordinary people and understand their plight. If you have benefitted from a priveliged system that has been constructed to ensure the continuity of that privelige then you will have no understanding of the plight of ordinary people. I am a great believer that attitudes are formed through experience and not just through education.

 

[West Kent Saint]

Absolutley yes, experience is so important. I went to a crap school and went back to education when a little older when this could be done without oweing huge amounts when you leave University.

 

[SFCbwSFC]

Did you see them arrange that fight......then get beaten up? They looked well crap, probably the same as our thugs, just drunken wanna-b-hard men.

The Ukrainian fans claim that fighting is a sport and say they've been training in the gym and won't drink or smoke before a fight. The ones that beat them up will be on their side come the Euros.