This summer

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vimhawk said:
I think we must

1. Change everything, because players and or managers that play/manage elsewhere will certainly be better than anything we can more closely assess in our own team.

2. Ignore any good things that the players and manager did to get us to 3rd spot in the PL in the first place. Things that go well must be discounted.

3. Base our assessment and future strategy completely on the relatively few admittedly awful games toward the end of the season, assuming that the majority of good games were the exception rather than the few awful ones. We must also believe that we deserve to lose all the games we actually dominated and were unlucky to lose.

4. We must accept that all the many bad refereeing decisions that went against us all happened in games we were going to lose anyway, so didn't make any difference. Do I need to specify how many of these there were and how many extra points we should have had? Nevertheless, in glass half empty world all this is deserved.

People, I too am not happy about how things have gone, but really think that there has been a massive overreaction. I am not claiming that there have not been a lot of good ideas here, but would suggest that many of these go too far and are actually dismantling a lot of the factors that led to us having an excellent first two thirds of the season.
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Vim, you talk of a "massive overreaction", but that post is a bit of an "general exaggeration".

There have been times where idiots have made some awful comments, through people being "hot headed" or commenting when in "the heat of the moment". - perhaps after a bad defeat or a bad ref. - I'd agree, overreaction.

Currently. the points being made by many users are not really an overreaction, when things are summed up. yes, it's all come at once, but it's been building up for sometime. The discussion topics are a build up of many factors that have come together, leaving us asking so many questions right now because our season has imploded, and we saw it coming.

The general points being made are:

1)Harry and England
2)Harry needing to leave, because England has turned his head
3)Lack of rotation and/or tactics
4)Players going out on loan who should never have been allowed to go
5)shifting of the dead wood, to allow for other players coming in.
6)Signings - where have they been for 18 months?

None of that is news to anyone, but unfortunately right now, the sh*t has hit the fan and the supporters have every right to question those subjects.

we're all pretty reasonable people on here who tend to agree to some extent. why are the club so far away from answering our questions that have been lingering around for months and months?

You're right, there have been some good points on here, but a season is 38 games + cup competitions, not an excellent first 2/3rds. The points above (most) are the reasons for our season only being 2/3rds long, IMO.
 
vimhawk said:
3. Base our assessment and future strategy completely on the relatively few admittedly awful games toward the end of the season
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Relatively few? The relatively few you speak of actually amounts to more than 25% of a premier league season. That "few" is more games than it took our chairman (and some fans) to decide that Jol wasn't good enough.
Imagine that the table linked earlier in the thread was at the beginning of the season. Do you seriously think Harry (or Kenny) would still be in a job?

Also, its not as if these were dead rubber games at the end of the season, these were very, VERY, important games for us.

I was all for Rodgers a couple of months ago as i thought he would slot right in without changing too much of what was a pretty good formula. However, since then it is clear more of a task-master is required. Moyes is the man for me, but is he holding out for something bigger? Surely he'll be on Utd's radar when Fergie retires.
 
flaspur said:
I agree about Moyes. A while ago I wasn't keen on the idea of him possibly taking over from "Twitchy" but the more I consider his CV, the more I think i will be a very good idea
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Can you please cut out the personal digs on our manager, we are all p'd off with the end of our season, but Redknapp has been a good manager for us, and this season we have hit heights that many of us have never seen before, so please cut out the personal jibes. Unless you are really a gooner of course?
 
I think modric can be replaced but not bale! I would take 40+ for him if it put back into the team

And I am also thinking moyes is the manager for us!
 
I got into this in another thread, but will repeat it here - our first team should, realistically, have a first choice player, an understudy, and a youngster coming through the ranks for each position. However, that isn't what we have:

Goalkeeper: Friedel, Cudicini, N/A
Right back: Walker, Corluka, Smith/Byrne
Centre back: Kaboul, Dawson, Caulker*
Centre back: King, Gallas/Nelsen, N/A
Left back: Assou-Ekotto, Rose, Naughton*
Right wing: Lennon, Kranjcar/Dos Santos/Bentley*, Townsend
Defensive midfield: Parker, Sandro, Luongo
Playmaker: Modric, Huddlestone, Carroll*
Left wing: Bale, Pienaar*, Falque*
Second striker: Van Der Vaart, N/A, Kane*
Centre forward: Adebayor, Saha/Defoe, N/A

(* denotes we loaned them out)

Too many loaned out, too many right wingers, not enough cover in some key positions. True, I did leave out academy players (like Coulibaly) but there's a lot of gaps in there, which considering Friedel, Cudicini, King, Gallas and Nelsen are coming to the end of their careers, plus there's some real dead wood in Bentley and Jenas, that needs sorting in the summer both in terms of lowering the age in key areas, as well as having valid replacements.
 
The point of this post wasnt to complain....
I mentiin Harry going cos ... Well he will.
I mention modric and bale cos the media circus has already started.
I mentioned fringe players cos they aint first teamers...and I mentioned gallas and king cos of the speculation that they will retire.
I dont think I have overeacted at all...tbh no one gave us a hope if top 4 until November ...
 
HarrysDisciple said:
Can you please cut out the personal digs on our manager, we are all p'd off with the end of our season, but Redknapp has been a good manager for us, and this season we have hit heights that many of us have never seen before, so please cut out the personal jibes. Unless you are really a gooner of course?
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even a gooner should'n t get personal to the extent of bad taste
 
remembercolinlee said:
The point of this post wasnt to complain....
I mentiin Harry going cos ... Well he will.
I mention modric and bale cos the media circus has already started.
I mentioned fringe players cos they aint first teamers...and I mentioned gallas and king cos of the speculation that they will retire.
I dont think I have overeacted at all...tbh no one gave us a hope if top 4 until November ...
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i totally agree with this....we can be upset at the manager but dont attack the man...we have shared alot of good moments with him with our team......i agree with most of the poster's on this thread apart from vimhawk :)
 
Ok chaps, I hold my hands up and apologise for the unwarranted personal jibes at the gaffer. I guess I was incensed with recent results and his apparent lack of loyalty to the club and simply got childish about it. Humble pie eaten in bucket loads!
 
flaspur said:
Ok chaps, I hold my hands up and apologise for the unwarranted personal jibes at the gaffer. I guess I was incensed with recent results and his apparent lack of loyalty to the club and simply got childish about it. Humble pie eaten in bucket loads!
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Fair play to you for this post <ok>
 
flaspur said:
Ok chaps, I hold my hands up and apologise for the unwarranted personal jibes at the gaffer. I guess I was incensed with recent results and his apparent lack of loyalty to the club and simply got childish about it. Humble pie eaten in bucket loads!
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<ok> your just a passionate Spurs fan with psychotic tendencies just like the rest of us.
 
humanbeingincroydon said:
I got into this in another thread, but will repeat it here - our first team should, realistically, have a first choice player, an understudy, and a youngster coming through the ranks for each position. However, that isn't what we have:

Goalkeeper: Friedel, Cudicini, N/A
Right back: Walker, Corluka, Smith/Byrne
Centre back: Kaboul, Dawson, Caulker*
Centre back: King, Gallas/Nelsen, N/A
Left back: Assou-Ekotto, Rose, Naughton*
Right wing: Lennon, Kranjcar/Dos Santos/Bentley*, Townsend
Defensive midfield: Parker, Sandro, Luongo
Playmaker: Modric, Huddlestone, Carroll*
Left wing: Bale, Pienaar*, Falque*
Second striker: Van Der Vaart, N/A, Kane*
Centre forward: Adebayor, Saha/Defoe, N/A

(* denotes we loaned them out)

Too many loaned out, too many right wingers, not enough cover in some key positions. True, I did leave out academy players (like Coulibaly) but there's a lot of gaps in there, which considering Friedel, Cudicini, King, Gallas and Nelsen are coming to the end of their careers, plus there's some real dead wood in Bentley and Jenas, that needs sorting in the summer both in terms of lowering the age in key areas, as well as having valid replacements.
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You forgot Jake!!!
Other than that, spot on.....
 
Dona_mara said:
20 years?? how time flies and how one adapts!!
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Very true...I was not that shocked that our season went pear shaped...I am old enough to remember many of our unique successes in turning possible triumphs to humiliation...I never celebrate or brag about anything until the fat lady has sung herself horse...and even then I expect us to suffer later for daring not to fail this time!
 
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