Today's game

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I agree we should keep him as an impact sub, but he really isn't a top class striker.
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Defoe is best as an impact sub, and is most dangerous in the last 20 minutes of a game yet his mentality is that he believes he should be first choice for both club and country and you have to say his self confidence is admirable!

However, clearly he isn't going to be first choice at this club but then again what type of club would appeal to defoe if he was to leave? as none of the top five are going to make him first choice so he would need to settle for a club such as sunderland if he wants 1st team football.
 
The problem for Defoe is that he is extremely selfish, and generally always shoots at goal if he is within his comfort range, regardless as to whether or not he has better options. It's great that has such supreme confidence in his own abilities, but frustrating when he takes on too much. We saw it last night when Bale had a right pop at him for taking on a difficult shot instead of passing the ball to Bale, who was unmarked and standing right in front of the goalie. A world class striker would have passed the ball to Bale, in that situation.
 
The Boss said:
Defoe is best as an impact sub, and is most dangerous in the last 20 minutes of a game yet his mentality is that he believes he should be first choice for both club and country and you have to say his self confidence is admirable!

However, clearly he isn't going to be first choice at this club but then again what type of club would appeal to defoe if he was to leave? as none of the top five are going to make him first choice so he would need to settle for a club such as sunderland if he wants 1st team football.
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Spot on - he has the choice of being a squad player for us or a starter in a club which will never win anything.
 
I thought it was quite interesting to watch Defoe & Bale having a few verbal handbags after that situation.
But the two of them have form in that area, was Bale right to have a go at him probably- however a few of the others can claim a few times when Bale didn't pass.
 
Dona_mara said:
i didnt understand the people who were walking off in the 90th minute and missed 50% of the goals including a cracker from Saha
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Guilty as charged. Had a 2 hour journey home and thought a little head start on the traffic was a good idea. Was shocked how many others did the same though. Appears I missed a cracker :sad:
 
PowerSpurs said:
I agree we should keep him as an impact sub, but he really isn't a top class striker. His goals ratio is about on par with Adebayor's and he influences the game much less. He also rarely performs against the top teams. To justify a starting place he would need to score about twice as many goals.

I'm not sure he is greedy exactly, he just doesn't seem to have any awareness about what other players are doing. He managed to spot Bale in an acre of space yesterday for the second goal but this is the exception - there were several occasions after that when he had fantastic passing opportunities and didn't see them. The reactions of our players said it all really.
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when you say "goal ratio" PS, do you mean the mean average goals scored, when compared to actual game time?

to me he's just a completely different player and it's unfair to compare him to Ade.

Maybe he isn't intentionally greedy, and comments suggesting he's just a bit "thick" might be more accurate. but in last night's game, bale was the right choice of pass. i think he knew that too. However, bale had had a few attempts and Defoe was desperate to impress.

perryman's right - it was a bit hypocritical of bale last night. there's were plenty of times where he could have also made a better decision. - fantastic goal though.

as we all keep saying, it's key for us now to implement some rotation. some may say it's too late, but now is when players will really be struggling. we've got some big games coming up. chelsea look like they've got a very busy fixture list, which could work in our favour if we rotate. our fixtures are supposedly "easier" (not undermining our opposistion there) than other sides around us. we need to capitalise on squad rotation and give some a rest, ready for the bigger games. (pretty obvious i know. - can someone tell harry?) <laugh>
 
Maybe he isn't intentionally greedy, and comments suggesting he's just a bit "thick" might be more accurate. but in last night's game, bale was the right choice of pass. i think he knew that too. However, bale had had a few attempts and Defoe was desperate to impress.
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He may well be "thick", lets be honest footballers aren't known for their intelligence! however if a goalscorer is starved of games, when he does gets games, in his mind all he wants to do, is score! hence he won't be thinking "best pass is to put in bale" all that will be on his mind is "i'm gonna put this in the back of the net".

We can't be too harsh on him for being greedy as thats really how he became a top player, as he is talented and proven in the premier league.
 
The Boss said:
We can't be too harsh on him for being greedy...
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I think we can, to some extent.

Let's not forget that Defoe had a dreadful 18 months, when he couldn't buy a goal for us. I couldn't care less if he got 30 assists or scored 30 goals or, ideally, 15 of each, in a season. But the awful fact is, that Defoe either scores, or he doesn't, and the stats will tell you that the latter is more likely to apply to him, over the past two and half seasons. This is where I believe that Ade shows his class, because he is always looking for the best option, and if that means passing the ball to a team-mate, that's what he'll do.

I love it when "the little fella" is on form, as much as any other Spurs fan, but his selfishness has cost us on more than one occasion, in the past. Fortunately, it didn't last night, but I think that Bale had every right to have a pop at him, when the option to pass was so clearly more preferable to taking the shot.
 
Defoe isn't a young guy, that can be changed, this is him, which is why he will never be 1st choice so you can't attack the player for being greedy if it won't change.

You can moan about it, be frustrated as we all are when watching the game and he doesn't make the pass but after the game I don't see any point in trying to attack defoe for being greedy.

It would be a different story if he was 1st choice, or was a youngster just starting out in the game but this is defoe and its why he is loved (and hated) for the same "quality".
 
I agree with your first comment Lidls, but you're slightly wrong on your second, though it seems counter-intuitive.
You'd think that Defoe would suit playing with a partner that drops deep, drifts wide and dictates play, but he really doesn't.
He showed that before with Keane and now again with van der Vaart.

He really suits playing alongside a big player who can hold the ball up and offer everything that he doesn't.
He works well with Adebayor at times, though we need two wingers to get the best from them as a pairing.

When he plays with Crouch they both shine.
It's a nightmare for defenders, as the successful strategy to deal with one of them totally fails against the other.
Play a high line and you leave space for Defoe to exploit and Crouch to knock it into.
Play deep and you risk the big man knocking the ball down for the predatory midget.
The same seems to apply to a ton of situations, where you either free one of them up or the combination gets you.
 
littleDinosaurLuke said:
Defoe doesn't fit into the formation; it's a simple as that. His strength is playing on the shoulder of the last defender and using his fleetness of foot to get into dangerous areas- like Hernandez does for Utd. Perhaps he could play with vdV but He doesn't complement Adebayor.
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Defoe doesn't click with VDV either. Nor did he click with Berbatov, Keane, or Mido - there is a pattern emerging here...

As for the comments about him being a "dumb" player, I do have to agree (and point out veeeery quickly this isn't a comment on his personality...) - when he sees the goal, his instinct is to shoot when a player with a more astute footballing brain would consider options like passing to a teammate in a better position or taking a moment to dummy the keeper or chip it over them.
 
HarrysDisciple said:
Guilty as charged. Had a 2 hour journey home and thought a little head start on the traffic was a good idea. Was shocked how many others did the same though. Appears I missed a cracker :sad:
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Yeah HD im not questioning anyones passion for Spurs...i just wouldnt do it myself unless we are winning or losing 4 nil...but as you say there were hoardes leaving...p.s i had a 3 hour journey <laugh>
 
The Boss said:
Defoe isn't a young guy, that can be changed, this is him, which is why he will never be 1st choice so you can't attack the player for being greedy if it won't change.

You can moan about it, be frustrated as we all are when watching the game and he doesn't make the pass but after the game I don't see any point in trying to attack defoe for being greedy.

It would be a different story if he was 1st choice, or was a youngster just starting out in the game but this is defoe and its why he is loved (and hated) for the same "quality".
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so basically you dont say nothing because we got away with it?

how many incidents do you recall where we didnt get away with it due to greediness etc..and due to that a match has turned against us etc?

he might be a creature of habit but it doesnt mean the rest enjoy giving him the bait..i was infuriated because to be honest just because we are winning 2 nil at that point doesnt mean we should not want to win by more..i could have walked out of WHL last night having witnessed a 7 goal tonking and i would not have been surprised.
 
No dona, not at all, but remember footballers have their own qualities and (negatives) but as a whole you generally understand what each player is going to give you.

Yes im sure arry would have given him hell for it if his lack of vision (or greediness) cost us the game but then if you try to change a player like defoe, you can take away the qualities which make him a great sub.

Maybe im not being harsh on Defoe as I actually have him down as someone who is pretty thick and i would be amazed if any words in his ear made any difference.
 
Dona_mara said:
Yeah HD im not questioning anyones passion for Spurs...i just wouldnt do it myself unless we are winning or losing 4 nil...but as you say there were hoardes leaving...p.s i had a 3 hour journey <laugh>
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Your dedication shames me :embarrassed:
 
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