England Stuff off my Chest (RANT)

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Beefforhire-NCFC

Beefforhire-NCFC

Well-Known Member
Jan 28, 2011
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The Wild East
I know this has been done to death but I just got in from work and I've been stewing on it all day.

I'm still SO angry about the lack of inclusion of Ruddy and Holt, but the whole England setup to me is completely going down the ****ter

things to point out about Holt.

  • How many times did you shout "Holt could have scored that" at the TV
  • England Lack a center forward to poach goals in the way Bent does
  • Wellbeck CANNOT do this role
  • Holt is 30 years old, he's not ancient, Scott Parker has only recently come into the fold and they've made him captain and he's a YEAR OLDER!
  • Is he Fat?
    You must log in or register to see images

    Is he Really?
  • Is he not good enough? Did he look good enough when he turned in the area against Manchester United and smacked one in the top corner with his WEAK FOOT?? 3 DAYS AGO!! WAS HE GOOD ENOUGH THEN???
  • Grant Holt won't be in the world cup squad in 2014?? uhhh HELLO! We need goals NOW, whether Holt is in the squad in two years is COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT! If we can't score goals, we can't get out of the group stage, it's as simple as that.
  • The Fact is Holt didn't get in down to a snooty, up itself, completely inneffective and devoid of all knowledge of it's own elite football league FA England Setup. I'll get on to slagging off Pearce in a second...

Ruddy Points
  • Joe Hart is the England Number one. No Norwich fan or anyone else is denying that, he is the best English Goalkeeper
  • If He Get's Injured before the Euros WE.ARE.****ED! You play Friendlies to try out new formations and test fringe players to adapt to eventualities that occur
  • You DO NOT play the BANG ON England Number one For 90 MINUTES! WHAT HAVE YOU LEARNED!!!!
  • Carson is a Joke, Green is past it to say the least. The only available option in the highest League possible was Ruddy, who's been in great form
  • Have no illusions Ruddy was not picked because of ARROGANCE and STUPIDITY of England Management
  • We have very little time before the Euros, Not lots of time for a young keeper like Ruddy to get acquanted with the setup and familiar with the system
  • Always bare this in mind before you dismiss Ruddy for England IF JOE HART GETS INJURED OR SUSPENDED JOSH ****ING CARSON IS OUR KEEPER!!!

Phew I feel slightly better after that....

**** it, I'll go for the hattrick and have a go at the rest of England...
  • Pearce - CLUELESS FA PUPPET - Will probably take us to the Euros now, absolute JOKE!
  • Sturridge-GOOD, Young-GOOD, Parker-GOOD
  • Barry-****, Baines-****, Johnson-****!
  • I agree with Pearces decision to make Parker captain, he is a good choice, but he had NO right to "appoint" anyone. You are NOT England manager Pearce, it should have gone to Gerrard as deputy captain until a permananent manager had an opportunity to name his captain. Pearce made a circus out of a non-decision
  • Like I said, wheres the centre forward? No additional cover brought in to cover injurues smacks of stupidity and a lack of knowledge of your own league

I'll leave it there but I do actually feel better after all that, phew!

Of the two football teams I support, Norwich and England, You could have a greater comparison of Awesome and complete ****e!
 
Aaaaaand breathe! <laugh>

Joking aside I agree with most of your points. Certainly Parker makes a decent captain as he leads by example, but I'd never thought about the fact Pearce should really have stuck with the vice-captain!

Only two things I would say- I don't think Baines is that bad. He makes a decent deputy to Cashley and has a very good free kick- I think it was just his bad luck he was up against Robben having a blinder. I also don't think Johnson is that bad generally. Again, didn't play well, true, but normally is much more effective- but he does need decent movement and support around him.

Welbeck and Barry are jokes.
 
I agree with beefy about Baines, never really rated him, couple of crosses which didn't make it pass the first man however he wasn't helped by downing in front of him, seriously why is he in the england setup, also MOM in the carling cup final? Really? Kyut did more than he did and he played about 40 minutes.

Johnson i felt sorry for, right wing is not our problem with Walcott, Lennon and Ox as a wildcard. on the left there's Young (injury prone), Milner (meh) and Downing (as might be clear, not my first choice). I could see johnson on the left for england but not on the right
 
i wish beefy would get off the fence on this.

totally agree mate. as i said the other day, it is impossible to support england at the moment. i will not be supporting them until some of the players more deserving who are on form get picked instead of the current idiotic choices like downing and campbell - and that doesn't necessarily mean norwich players <ok>
 
Yeah while I would love to see holt play for England, I feel the same about graham or Nathan dyer. The England team is a hard place to get to but it seems once you're there you immediately deserve a place forever. Wellbeck will score more prem goals in his career than holt will, but right now holt is the more useful striker. Hilt and Sturridge would look great, I hope that's sort of what we get with Vaughan.
 
Some people have told me to give up on holt getting into England but he's given everything to this club in the last few years and if he wants to play ill support him all the way! We owe him and any other players that want to play do their country no less!
 
I think he would be "PROPER" proud to pull on the shirt, unlike some of the planks who just say that for media effect.
I was happy to see England holding on to the ball and passing it around, as opposed to, lets all play in the back four and lump it up field to no one in particlular. Still a very long way to go I feel.
Good rant Beef.

ILD OTBC
 
I think this proves that entitling a thread 'let's put X to bed' is likely to feed Pro Plus to X and make sure it goes without sleep for at least week <laugh>
 
Lets be clear binners, you had no effect on this. We've been mad all season that Ruddy and now Holt haven't been given a chance. If you think this is the last you've heard of this DREAM ON. Holt for England untill anyone can give me a reasoned response otherwise.
 
Dont wory Beef , Pearce is keeping them back for the GB squad we can all stand and sing our National Anthem in pride as Holty lifts the Gold medal!
 
I, like all Norwich fans, would love to see Grant Holt in an England shirt but that's only going to happen if he pops into the local JJB on Riverside. Donning my England fan hat, what does Grant really offer to an England team who need to build for the future - he is 31 next month! If the intention is not to use the Euros as a team-building exercise, givng young players tournament experience, then then there's a case but the next couple of years have to be about building a World Cup team. By default -as there are few alternatives - if England are going to use a centre forward ie someone to hold up the ball, bring others into play etc, then it has to be Welbeck. Sturridge? Hmm, to me more ikely to prosper playing-off the main striker , either on his own or alongside Rooney playing narrow, not as a winger! But in some ways the challenge of fitting Sturridge into the team is the same as Walcott - neither is a winger; neither is a main striker; other than the first two games of the Euros, Rooney will play so how to fi both Sturridge and Walcott into a team, well, unless rooney in moved back into midfield or they both play-ff him, with no Welbeck role. Welbeck actually played pretty well gainst the Dutch considering 1) Neither Baines nor Richards demonstrated even the slightest know-how of how to utilise space down the wings, or how to cross the ball 2) He had the abject Gerard and then Young 'playing' behind him - in the limited time he played, Gerard was always out of positon, and was constantly trying to demonstrate a passing ability he simply does not possess. As for Young, apart from the goal, he was dire - constantly giving the ball away; providing no link-up play between Welbeck and the equally dire midfield of Parker and Barry. Truly awful. So, rather unfair to judge Welbeck on Wednesday' game. I think he played as well as anyone in an England shirt - yes, overall. an inept England outplayed by a very average Dutch side, but that wasn't Welbeck's fault but rather the manager and dearth of quality of some of his teammates eg Parker, Barry, Baines, Young, Cahill, Smalling etc - none of whom is remotely international standard. As for the manger - why play a 4-2-3-1 with two similar in style and low quality as Parker and Barry? No positional sense; no skill; zero creativity. Their combined contribution a series of 5 yd square or backward passes; well, with Parker, also a series of last ditch tackles but those are just an indictment of lacking pace and positional sense in the first place... Why play 4 at the back against 1 main striker - two central defenders? One to mark and one to bring out the ball, alas, England had two players who could do neither... And then for Pearce to play two very poor defensive midfielders smacks more of containment and stifling the opposition than desire to actually win the game! Based upon Wednesday, if there was space for a Norwich player in the England team, it wouldn't be Holt but Pilkington (who, I believe is really English and has never represented Ireland at senior level) Fox or Naughton... which, as with Holt, is never going to happen!
 
Mankie_Mawkin said:
I, like all Norwich fans, would love to see Grant Holt in an England shirt but that's only going to happen if he pops into the local JJB on Riverside. Donning my England fan hat, what does Grant really offer to an England team who need to build for the future - he is 31 next month! If the intention is not to use the Euros as a team-building exercise, givng young players tournament experience, then then there's a case but the next couple of years have to be about building a World Cup team. By default -as there are few alternatives - if England are going to use a centre forward ie someone to hold up the ball, bring others into play etc, then it has to be Welbeck. Sturridge? Hmm, to me more ikely to prosper playing-off the main striker , either on his own or alongside Rooney playing narrow, not as a winger! But in some ways the challenge of fitting Sturridge into the team is the same as Walcott - neither is a winger; neither is a main striker; other than the first two games of the Euros, Rooney will play so how to fi both Sturridge and Walcott into a team, well, unless rooney in moved back into midfield or they both play-ff him, with no Welbeck role. Welbeck actually played pretty well gainst the Dutch considering 1) Neither Baines nor Richards demonstrated even the slightest know-how of how to utilise space down the wings, or how to cross the ball 2) He had the abject Gerard and then Young 'playing' behind him - in the limited time he played, Gerard was always out of positon, and was constantly trying to demonstrate a passing ability he simply does not possess. As for Young, apart from the goal, he was dire - constantly giving the ball away; providing no link-up play between Welbeck and the equally dire midfield of Parker and Barry. Truly awful. So, rather unfair to judge Welbeck on Wednesday' game. I think he played as well as anyone in an England shirt - yes, overall. an inept England outplayed by a very average Dutch side, but that wasn't Welbeck's fault but rather the manager and dearth of quality of some of his teammates eg Parker, Barry, Baines, Young, Cahill, Smalling etc - none of whom is remotely international standard. As for the manger - why play a 4-2-3-1 with two similar in style and low quality as Parker and Barry? No positional sense; no skill; zero creativity. Their combined contribution a series of 5 yd square or backward passes; well, with Parker, also a series of last ditch tackles but those are just an indictment of lacking pace and positional sense in the first place... Why play 4 at the back against 1 main striker - two central defenders? One to mark and one to bring out the ball, alas, England had two players who could do neither... And then for Pearce to play two very poor defensive midfielders smacks more of containment and stifling the opposition than desire to actually win the game! Based upon Wednesday, if there was space for a Norwich player in the England team, it wouldn't be Holt but Pilkington (who, I believe is really English and has never represented Ireland at senior level) Fox or Naughton... which, as with Holt, is never going to happen!
Click to expand...


I'm afraid I completely disagree, I'm sorry.

I think it's madness to "use the Euros as a team-building exercise". It is the second-biggest international football trophy. If we've qualified, we should be in it to win it (I know this is highly unlikely, but it was highly unlikely that we'd be in eighth at this stage of the season). For christ's sake we've got two years to build a team for the World Cup after the Euros, that's ample time. Right here and now, we should be building a team in the brief time we've got (two more international matches I think) that can compete respectably at the Euros. Welbeck will be very good one day, but right now he is not up to scratch. Holt, on the other hand, is in the form of his life and no, he is not a "world class" player, but he's just about the second best striker England have and the best England striker isn't going to play in the first two Euros matches. He and Danny Graham should both be going. Imagine what Holt could do with some of the deliveries Gerrard et al can create?! If Holt had been in the Man U team against us I think the scoreline would have looked a lot worse. Sure, after the Euros there's no point keeping him in the team if it's going to push out a more naturally gifted prospect, but we're in danger of being embarrassed at the Euros and the one thing I'm now confident of is that Holt would not put himself to shame in the England set-up.

Naughton is not close to getting in because Walker and Richards are better than him atm. If there were a load of injuries, maybe, but this is the reason why Holt should be picked- because of suspension to Rooney and injury to Bent.
 
Canary Rob said:
Naughton is not close to getting in because Walker and Richards are better than him atm. If there were a load of injuries, maybe, but this is the reason why Holt should be picked- because of suspension to Rooney and injury to Bent.
Click to expand...

The point I was making is not that Naughton should be selected - even though I don't agree Richards is a better right back; Richards is a centre back as he isn't mobile enough for a FB, I think his ideal position would be on the right of a 3 at the back (which is what I think England should play) - but there is about as much chance as any of the players I mentioned as Holt getting picked and based upon Wedneday, actually could lay claim to a better argument. Welbeck did absolutely nothing wrong - he is the future for England; he should and will play at the Euros.

Btw, I don't think picking a young team for the future and having a good tournament are mutually exclusive...
 
Mankie_Mawkin said:
The point I was making is not that Naughton should be selected - even though I don't agree Richards is a better right back; Richards is a centre back as he isn't mobile enough for a FB, I think his ideal position would be on the right of a 3 at the back (which is what I think England should play) - but there is about as much chance as any of the players I mentioned as Holt getting picked and based upon Wedneday, actually could lay claim to a better argument. Welbeck did absolutely nothing wrong - he is the future for England; he should and will play at the Euros.

Btw, I don't think picking a young team for the future and having a good tournament are mutually exclusive...
Click to expand...

I have by no means watched Welbeck closely and I think you're right that he didn't get much help in the England match, but I've seen his goal record, seen comments like this: http://thisisfutbol.com/2012/03/blogs/should-united-continue-to-persevere-with-this-goal-shy-striker and watched him miss a couple of golden opportunities against us when the midfield was offering a lot more and my only conclusion can be that he is simply not ready. Of course, given four months and a change in form and maybe he'll be awesome, but on recent performances Holt should be picked. Don't get me wrong, I don't think he will, but I strongly think he should and I've spoken to a number of non-Norwich fans who agree. Especially the Man U fans who saw Holt's goal. I don't think Welbeck has done an awful lot right to justify his position in the England squad- it seems obvious that the merit of him being there is being at Man U and I think that's wrong. He should be made to prove himself first, no matter how obviously gifted he is.

I agree about the "young team" thing, but that's not really what I mean. A young team is great, if they're ready. Owen was ready at 18, the Germany team that was awesome at the last world cup was ready. Sturridge is ready. Welbeck is not.
 
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