Relegation!

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lamby

lamby

Needs a cold shower
Oct 3, 2011
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Mitcham, Surrey
Non Saints I know but I spotted this thread on another board and thought it might spark some interesting discussion.

For Liverpool, Arsenal, and Chelsea dropping out the top 4 is the same as relegation for teams like Wigan, West Ham, and Wolves.

Loss of status, loss of income, having to cut back on players, and so on. Of course some teams come straight back up, for them it is little more than a hic-cup. For others it is the beginning of a long term decline like Leeds.

So who are your favourites for 'relegation' from the top 4 and for who will it be the start of a long term decline?
 
I think Arsenal will finish 4th - Chelsea are on the decline at the moment, they will get better, but I reckon they will get the "Thursday nights, Channel 5" chant aimed at them. Liverpool are distracted by the cups so will finish outside top 4.
 
Arsenal are the obvious ones to mention, they might fall out of the top 4 this season, but I think they'll be ok longer term; they have a lot of money, few debts, and they're generally pretty well run. Chelsea could be in trouble if there is any truth in the rumour they are being investigated by HMRC for tax offenses. And at the end of the day it would only take Abramovich to lose interest, or for something to happen to him (like legal, er, difficulties), and they'd be in all sorts of trouble.
 
All three are miles off being as good as Spurs, never mind the Manchester teams. I think Liverpool have the least work to do, and just need a couple of key signings. Arsenal and Chelsea are both in need of a major overhaul, and what's most worrying for them is that it may not actually happen at all. Chelsea don't have a lot of history as a top 4 side, and it doesn't seem all that long ago when they would have been happy with a top half finish. As said above, if they lose any of that precious investment, they're nothing. Arsenal could potentially become a great side again, but they'll need to spend big on a world-class playmaker, world-class centre-back and world-class striker.
 
Saint_Lambden said:
None of them.
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Agreed. They will inevitably put their houses in order sooner or later. One or two have allowed themselves to slip alarmingly, considering their reputations, eg. Liverpool, but without the significant income from the Champions League it inevitably needs a big injection to get back to where they were, or they start to fall into the clutches of clubs just below them. The worst thing these clubs can do is stand still, because effectively they end up going backwards.

And Saints know all about that now, albeit slightly further down the table.
 
joesteinberg said:
All three are miles off being as good as Spurs, never mind the Manchester teams. I think Liverpool have the least work to do, and just need a couple of key signings. Arsenal and Chelsea are both in need of a major overhaul, and what's most worrying for them is that it may not actually happen at all. Chelsea don't have a lot of history as a top 4 side, and it doesn't seem all that long ago when they would have been happy with a top half finish. As said above, if they lose any of that precious investment, they're nothing. Arsenal could potentially become a great side again, but they'll need to spend big on a world-class playmaker, world-class centre-back and world-class striker.
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I'm beginning to think that the barrier between Arsenal once again becoming the first or second side in the division is Arsene Wenger. He still doesn't seem to appreciate that he needs a rock of a defence foundation to build his team on. Since the demise of Adams/Keown etc... until this day, his side can be undone by a strong physical side whose only tactic is a set-piece into the penalty area, Something which should be meat and drink to the average Premier League CB pairing.
 
I predict the likes of Newcastle and Tottenham being up there amongst the top in the next few seasons. Tottenham have proven they can compete and if they keep their scructure intact, they'll only get stronger each year. With Newcastle, it's only a matter of time before they get some significant overseas investment. The infrustructure is already in place with regard to the stadium, fanbase and training facilities. If there are no messy debts hanging around, the club is an investor's dream - much like Man City.
 
The scousers haven't been regulars in the top four for a few years now and although they have a proud history, it counts for nothing in the here and now. I think that Spurs have superseded Arsenal and Chelsea as top dogs in London. I still believe that Chelsea have the financial backing to get back to the top, they just need the right manager, which I fully expect will be put in place before next season.

My top 4 this season....
Man City
Man Utd
Spurs
Arsenal
 
TheSecondStain said:
I'm beginning to think that the barrier between Arsenal once again becoming the first or second side in the division is Arsene Wenger. He still doesn't seem to appreciate that he needs a rock of a defence foundation to build his team on. Since the demise of Adams/Keown etc... until this day, his side can be undone by a strong physical side whose only tactic is a set-piece into the penalty area, Something which should be meat and drink to the average Premier League CB pairing.
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But could they find another manager who would be better at the man-management side of things? I think that when you have had the same manager for that long, he is as important as any key player, and it would be a huge risk to sack him. Surely the man must be aware that his defence isn't good enough? Everyone else can see it.
 
joesteinberg said:
But could they find another manager who would be better at the man-management side of things? I think that when you have had the same manager for that long, he is as important as any key player, and it would be a huge risk to sack him. Surely the man must be aware that his defence isn't good enough? Everyone else can see it.
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I think Arsenal fans would say the defence hasn't been good enough for some time yet he's done very little to solve it.
 
As much as I dislike Wenger and his ridiculous biased summeries after matches, it cannot be denied that his teams have played some of the best football ever in England. He has a great eye for a player and has made several of them into 'stars'. I think that top 4 is a good achievement for Arsenal, as they can't compete with the mega wages that the likes of Man City and Chelsea can offer.
 
joesteinberg said:
But could they find another manager who would be better at the man-management side of things? I think that when you have had the same manager for that long, he is as important as any key player, and it would be a huge risk to sack him. Surely the man must be aware that his defence isn't good enough? Everyone else can see it.
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Of course it would be a huge risk. Wenger is a superb man-manager, but there's little doubt he has this tactical blind spot. That, or Pat Rice continues to reassure him he'll get the defence sorted, and Wenger places too much faith in his assurances, because a relatively poor defence is the reason why Arsenal are not in the top four. Pundits, neutral and ex-Arsenal; Fans, interested and uninterested, have been saying for years that there are holes in the Arsenal defence akin to Swiss cheese.
 
lamballana said:
Joe

I think the funds are there but fair play to him he doesn't want to play inflated prices, apart from when stealing our youngsters that is!

I think he may have to break that policy in the next window.
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I agree. There are top defenders out there who he could get hold of, but he would have to pay big bucks. Chris Samba would be at the low end of what I would consider to be good enough. Dortmund's Mats Hummels would be a fine choice, or his partner Subotic.
 
lamballana said:
Joe

I think the funds are there but fair play to him he doesn't want to play inflated prices, apart from when stealing our youngsters that is!

I think he may have to break that policy in the next window.
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it was reported he had a kitty of 50 million- he refused to pay 9 million for an england international defender, but willing to pay 12 million for a 17 year old oxo. but oxo has been playing well and cahill has been shyte sofar, maybe he knows more.
 
Spurs have only qualified for the CL once. If 'Arry drops the shoulder and takes on the England job, I'm not sure if they will be contenders again for a while (although I agree that they are a better team than Chelsea, Arsenal or Liverpool by far at the moment). Chelsea will simply buy their way back in to the top four without a doubt. I see Liverpool and Arsenal squabbling over 4th place for a while and Liverpool losing out most often, despite the blinkers that Wenger sports every time he goes defender shopping.
 
joesteinberg said:
I agree. There are top defenders out there who he could get hold of, but he would have to pay big bucks. Chris Samba would be at the low end of what I would consider to be good enough. Dortmund's Mats Hummels would be a fine choice, or his partner Subotic.
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Dare I throw Jan Vertonghen into that mix as well?
 
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