Luis Suarez

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Hornette_TID said:
He's not in his country Abers, he's in ours. In our country, i'm sure he's well aware that the word is defamatory, and abusive, and if he isn't, it's the club's fault for not letting him know that. It's irrelevant how the word is used in his country, he's not playing football there!
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Ain't multiculturism grand?

That's where the problem lies. For the last 40 years or so, the country has embraced multiculturism - some would say in spite of the obvious dangers - and in doing so has basically given away the right to claim 'our country, our rules'. Like it or not, the UK is now a melting pot of native-born and newcomers that we are bound into accepting, and like it or not, that includes the cultural diversities that come with it. We don't have the right to pick and choose the good bits, we have to accept what is presented. :(
 
Racism and of course the idea of 'Political correctness' are highly emotive themes. Technically speaking no insult can be legally combined with any adjective based on racial origins, sectarian background, sex, disablement or National origins. It is not legal to call someone a frog, kraut or anything similar - also the expression French bastard is not legal as it implies that a persons bastardy and Frenchness are in some way linked, although the chances of this going to court are extremely small. I myself have been greeted with Heil Hitler salutes from drunken Englishmen while travelling together with German friends in England (They didn't know that I was English) - also been referred to as Le Bosch while travelling with my German wife in France. Neither of these were nice experiences. The term 'little boy' when used to a fully grown man can only be seen as insulting and when accompanied by any adjective involving ethnicity doubly so - regardless of what the situation is in Uruguay. Whilst Evra has a technical legal right of complaint which says more for his knowledge of British law than it does for his professionality or common sense - having been made it has to be looked into, even if it is making a mountain from a molehill. And if found guilty then the punishment should be a severe one. Having said that I do not agree with the 'One law for everyone' approach here - if an Englishman had said these things he would have been more guilty than Suarez was - and if what he said was really in Spanish I don't see how this can be judged (Or is he supposed to have used bad English?).
 
Bolton's Boots said:
For the last 40 years or so, the country has embraced multiculturism - some would say in spite of the obvious dangers - and in doing so has basically given away the right to claim 'our country, our rules'.
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The "our country, our rules" principle still stands: the only difference is that the racial composition of "our" has changed. As a direct result of the input of people who have come here over the last 40 years or more, all parts of society take a far tougher approach to things that could be perceived as racist than they once did.
 
I disagree NNW I think things have gone a lot more liberal ,if anything too liberal , I accept there is more violence , but that is not down to colour or creed , more peer pressure , poverty alcohol and drugs , all drivers for civil unrest!
 
Bolton's Boots said:
Ain't multiculturism grand?

That's where the problem lies. For the last 40 years or so, the country has embraced multiculturism - some would say in spite of the obvious dangers - and in doing so has basically given away the right to claim 'our country, our rules'. Like it or not, the UK is now a melting pot of native-born and newcomers that we are bound into accepting, and like it or not, that includes the cultural diversities that come with it. We don't have the right to pick and choose the good bits, we have to accept what is presented. :(
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Maybe we should be stressing more the positive side of immigration rather than always talking about having to put up with it. I for one am glad to live in a multi cultural society. Without immigration our health system would collapse and our pension system as well, and by 'our' I mean both Britain and Germany here.
 
Well said Cologne <applause> and with true multi cultural societys in a growing number of countries flourishing , I think we need to think forward into the future and yet learn the lessons of history ,but not to a degree that it ignites old hatreds! when that day arises we will be truly multi cultural ! Probably some way to go yet !
letting people like Evra play the system that has been designed to help ,will cause hate ,more abuse and take us backwards! One thing for sure ,if we can lose some PC and gain some common sense , then it will only help us progress!

Meanwhile back to the mulled wine:)
 
Hornette_TID said:
i find that sad Norway, sorry. Racism isn't 'nothing'. Racism killed 6 million Jews in WW2. Racism kills all over the world, all the time. Racism, treated as lightly as you, others and Liverpool football club are treating it, is dangerous. Whether you regards Suarez as racist or not, he has been found to be racist, and therefore, what he said cannot be condoned. It breeds hate, and hate is a very disturbing thing.
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H - I am totally with you on this...
 
I find some of the arguments on this amazing - this has nothing to do with immagration or if it is better or worse to break a fellow players leg than it is to racially abuse him. Suarez has been proven to have racially abused a fellow footballer who is Black, I am sure he has the very best in legal support paid for by Liverpool and it failed - I absolutely know they will not appeal because their QC will tell them there are no grounds because he has admitted to breaking the FA regulations. We can debate the wrongs and rights about what Suarez shouted at Evra for ever and a day...but he is guilty and he has admitted as such.

Love and respect to everyone...
 
I will say this again but only once as people are not listening.

The term is not a racist term!! It is no different than Pom, Jock, Kiwi or Hillbilly. It is a term which has no racial connotations in his native tongue and home country. Evra has chosen to take offence to is because he has that chip on his shoulders as many (not all thankfully) Black people do! As soon as you even mention the colour black they play the racism card (often incorrectly). I do not defend someone who is racist but Luis Suarez is not racist. We have heard the explanation from someone who speaks fluent Spanish how the term is one of affection and joking light hearted fun. How can you say that John Terry and Luis Suarez are the same?? One called a player a ****ing black ****, the other called a player a little black boy. You can see the difference!
 
wear_yellow said:
H - I am totally with you on this...
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As mentioned before I find it astounding how we are talking about 2 footballers on the one hand and 6 million deaths on the other !
I wonder if the palestinians feel that Suarez is right or wrong , for that matter any of the people killed in genocides through the ages , the crusades for one!
If you want to expand the debate from two muppet footballers to the ills of the world , great ,will make good reading !
Long live Common Sense Common sense is dead !

Love and respect .....it seems not whilst suarez is breathing , the mob is sure out to get him ,if were going historical it is more like the witch hunts!
 
I agree that the issue of two footballers has nothing to do with the overall theme of immigration - also that it cannot be placed in the same breath as human tragedies like the holocaust. What happened between the two is, unfortunately, probably the tip of the iceberg. In football at the highest level it has regretably become standard practice to constantly rile up opponents - presumably condoned by managers. It often starts in the tunnel and continues throughout the whole match and normally focusses upon something particularly sensitive to the victim. Evra reacted by speaking out - Zinedine Zidane in quite another way, the provocation for him appeared to be more targetted at his family eg. 'Your sister is a whore`and so on before he finally flipped out and gave Materazzi what was coming. Was this insult excusable because it wasn't racist ? What we need to be looking at is the whole spectrum of top football - that results are all that matters, and that using any means to get another player sent off are apparently o.k. and must be with the support of managers and coaches alike.
 
northofwatfordpete said:
Excuse me but how do we know that Terry was guilty?
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Unfortunately the best videos have been removed, but if you look from 0:12 you can see him call someone (presumably Anton Ferdinand) a ****ing black ****.

[NSFW][video=youtube;z0z_Y2dk-aQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0z_Y2dk-aQ&feature=related[/video][/NSFW]

In NSFW due to the offensive nature.
 
Norwayhornet said:
H this is a matter of one soccer player calling another, has absolutely nothing to do with killing 6 million people ! The point that some people are trying to say is that Suarez hasnt done anything racist , he has been tried by a bunch of inept FA idiots! ,If anything you should be siding with him ,until he is proved guilty in a court of law!
Aberdeen is right , there will be an appeal and common sense will win through!, If not it will go Legal and the laws of the land will find that he is not guilty .The FA will be made to look the chumps that they are (again....).
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I don't understand why nobody is seeing the actual point here! (except w_y who is talking sense, thank goodness!). I will say it again,.though honestly, i said it the first time quite well i think! Suarez was found guilty of racial abuse. Whether what he said is abusive in Uruguay or not is irrelevant. It was offensive, and he has admitted to being racially offensive. What is completely wrong in this is the way his football club, and a lot of people here have reacted. How can anyone justify sticking up for someone who has freely admitted to using words that can obviously be thought of as racist? How can he deserve support? What about redirecting that energy to encouraging racism out of football. Liverpool FC should be ashamed of the way they've handled it, and i am surprised and saddened by the flippant attitude in this thread to an act of racism.

babyhornetdan said:
I will say this again but only once as people are not listening.

The term is not a racist term!! It is no different than Pom, Jock, Kiwi or Hillbilly. It is a term which has no racial connotations in his native tongue and home country. Evra has chosen to take offence to is because he has that chip on his shoulders as many (not all thankfully) Black people do! As soon as you even mention the colour black they play the racism card (often incorrectly). I do not defend someone who is racist but Luis Suarez is not racist. We have heard the explanation from someone who speaks fluent Spanish how the term is one of affection and joking light hearted fun. How can you say that John Terry and Luis Suarez are the same?? One called a player a ****ing black ****, the other called a player a little black boy. You can see the difference!
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There is no difference. Calling someone a little black boy in a way that is derrogatory and meant to incite frustration is no different to calling him a black anything else. Whatever way you look at it, calling someone a black anything is wrong. The rules won't accept it, i'm not sure why you would.

colognehornet said:
I agree that the issue of two footballers has nothing to do with the overall theme of immigration - also that it cannot be placed in the same breath as human tragedies like the holocaust. What happened between the two is, unfortunately, probably the tip of the iceberg. In football at the highest level it has regretably become standard practice to constantly rile up opponents - presumably condoned by managers. It often starts in the tunnel and continues throughout the whole match and normally focusses upon something particularly sensitive to the victim. Evra reacted by speaking out - Zinedine Zidane in quite another way, the provocation for him appeared to be more targetted at his family eg. 'Your sister is a whore`and so on before he finally flipped out and gave Materazzi what was coming. Was this insult excusable because it wasn't racist ? What we need to be looking at is the whole spectrum of top football - that results are all that matters, and that using any means to get another player sent off are apparently o.k. and must be with the support of managers and coaches alike.
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This i agree with!
 
I have used and will continue to use the term negrito, i have used and will continue to use the term caraqueno one refers to colour one refers to origin neither are racist so for one final time the term used is not a racist term!!!! The fact that some idiots believe it is because it refers to a colour is a sad reflection on how loony our society has gone. Frankly the sensitivities of some are sad to reflect on, I expected evra type reactions from my kids when they were in the playground up to about the age of 8 and might intervene, however from the age of 8 I taught them to be a bit more "adult" sticks and stones etc. and if they take offence ignore and let the comments reflect on the giver, stops the potential for damage or misunderstanding. I personally despise people who make mountains out of molehills whatever their race or colour and the Evra behaviour is damaging for his race and reflects badly on the negro population. The means used by Evra to get Suarez suspended are detestable, if there was any racial intent do you really think Suarez would have self convicted by testifying the actual words or would he have denied it being the only one who knows exactly what was said apart from Evra? Use your brains people.
 
I don't have to believe anything he says, Suarez admitted using those words...for me they are both diving cheating scum-bags. I remember seeing the whole of that incident at the time and neither of them come away with any credit. I believe Suarez still has to answer for flicking the V's at Fulham fans after they booed him for yet another dive the other week...I was listening to that match on 5 live and remember them moaning about that dive. Perhaps if the football authorities cracked down on the cheating more, they would put some respect back into the game.

Merry Xmas Aberdeen...BTW, I loved the words that you would have used to Suarez, they reminded me of a Spanish girl who used to work for me, who after a couple of wines would be swearing like that and dancing on the tables...mad as a box of frogs
 
Merry Christmas everyone, another cultural difference in Latin America the big celebration is night of 24th not the 25th.... Wifes away with my daughter in Spain I'm too busy to go until early january and I guess I have to admit the latin side of my family are a lot more fun than us anglo saxons, apologies to the liberals for mentioning that in my family we have different races, different colours, different sexes, different disabilities, different ages, no different sexualities mind but its that mixing pot that makes our family so healthy and if anyone wants to call me a white fat english old git I'll take it in the spirit I know its meant.
 
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