When Will Starmer Go?

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TwoWrights said:
And here's me of the opinion that Farage is a grifting gobshite, hey ho. :emoticon-0138-think
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I supported him for years. Voted UKIP three times.
Those who recall six or seven years back on Not606 Charlton (before my time as moderator here) I was an arch Brexiteer.
I would never shut up on the subject. Gave the European Union dog's abuse for months.
Could not have been more closely aligned with the views of Mr Farage.
Got labelled a racist etc. as all Leave voters did.

So what changed?
Not NF. He's always been the person he is.
Must have been me then.
But do people ever really change?

Popping off about the Holocaust and Human rights ad nauseam has only ever got me into trouble.
Given plenty of rope for others to hang me with.
Even my sanctimonious opposition to violence only served to piss Reams off. If we had ever actually met he'd have been well within his rights to give me a proper slap for my trouble.
There are plenty of good, decent, caring people out there in the World. They don't need me pretending to be one of them.
 
Sounds a bit self indulgent Lardi. Stop beating yourself up your views are your views good luck to you .
 
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Watameire said:
Sounds a bit self indulgent Lardi. Stop beating yourself up your views are your views good luck to you .
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Thanks @Watameire

Here's the truth of it.
I believe there are three different kinds of people in the World
(and no, this isn't the Dicks, P*ssies & A***holes speech from Team America)

There are Leaders.
There are Followers.
And there are Free thinkers.

A music critic once said of the band the Stereophonics (before they were famous) that they had "just enough education to perform".
Well that's a perfect description of me.
I have liked to kid myself that I'm a free thinker. But I have always known deep down what I really am. A Follower.
Nothing shameful in that really.
Followers form about 98% of Humanity. With Leaders & Free thinkers maybe 1% each.

I have always shied away from meeting Leaders. Attending rallies or religious events with charismatic speakers.
Not because I radically disagree with the views I might hear at such events.
But because I'm afraid that I will be overwhelmed. That I will lose my own personality. That I will be radicalised. Indoctrinated.
It's also a reason why I avoid social media and radical online content.

Leaders frighten me.
I fear their influence as much as I admire the words of Free thinkers.
We have only seen a few genuine Leaders in British Politics of the last 50 years.
Margaret Thatcher.
Tony Blair.
Boris Johnson.
And now in this Country there is only one genuine Leader among our senior politicians.
Nigel Farage.

I spent a decade in his orbit during the UKIP years. A devoted Follower.
More recently I have outspokenly opposed, ridiculed and insulted the man.
Not because I despise him.
Because I am afraid of his influence.
If I allow myself to listen o what he has to say, I am fairly sure I will be indoctrinated. A devoted Follower once again.
People like him have a power. The power to make History.
 
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I’m much more simplistic (simple than you probably) and see things totally differently. I don’t follow, I don’t believe I do anyway. I’m too arrogant for that.

I agree with your assessment of Thatcher and Blair being leaders. The other two though, Johnson and Farage, I just see as bullshit merchants
 
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By the way, when I say Genuine Leaders I don't mean Great Statesmen.
I mean people with a magnetic persona. A kind of charisma that inspires devoted followers.

Genuine Leaders often have many flaws.
Trump is the most obvious example of that.
But they all have a kind of persuasive power, which can have global consequences - for good or ill.
 
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Watameire said:
I’m much more simplistic (simple than you probably) and see things totally differently. I don’t follow, I don’t believe I do anyway. I’m too arrogant for that.

I agree with your assessment of Thatcher and Blair being leaders. The other two though, Johnson and Farage, I just see as bullshit merchants
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Both Thatcher and Blair had a sense of mission. They also had a sense of righteousness. Maybe you need that to do such a job, but it can make you blind to unintended consequences.
 
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Ubedizzytoo said:
It’s not just him. Plenty that were acting with pure, cold, rage after George Floyd are eerily quiet now. In fact they are up in faux arms at anyone who acts as they themselves did back then. What’s different I wonder ?

Glad that Zia Yusuf put Cathy ‘hypocrite’ Newman in her place on Sky News.
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Cathy Newman has been getting vile abuse and death threats since that interview. Which Elon Musk is happy to promote on X. As I said on a different thread, it's not just what your talents are, it's what you do with them.
 
The Penguin said:
Cathy Newman has been getting vile abuse and death threats since that interview. Which Elon Musk is happy to promote on X. As I said on a different thread, it's not just what your talents are, it's what you do with them.
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I expect that everyone in a high profile public role gets vile abuse and death threats on a daily basis these days. It’s the downside of using social media to gain yourself publicity.

Can’t see anything in that interview, either from Newman or Yusuf, which could possibly justify such behaviour, but that’s social media for you.

I think they both stuck to their guns and neither was impolite to the other and personally I think Yusuf had the better arguments, although others may disagree.

Are you saying that Musk is promoting vile abuse and death treats towards Newman ? That would be unacceptable and wrong if true, but is it true ?
 
Ubedizzytoo said:
I expect that everyone in a high profile public role gets vile abuse and death threats on a daily basis these days. It’s the downside of using social media to gain yourself publicity.

Can’t see anything in that interview, either from Newman or Yusuf, which could possibly justify such behaviour, but that’s social media for you.

I think they both stuck to their guns and neither was impolite to the other and personally I think Yusuf had the better arguments, although others may disagree.

Are you saying that Musk is promoting vile abuse and death treats towards Newman ? That would be unacceptable and wrong if true, but is it true ?
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I think that X algorhythms encourages extreme behaviour without any checks. And Grok allows anyone to alter images of anyone including children. It's not personal, it attracts users, which doesn't speak well of human nature.
 
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The Penguin said:
I think that X algorhythms encourages extreme behaviour without any checks. And Grok allows anyone to alter images of anyone including children. It's not personal, it attracts users, which doesn't speak well of human nature.
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Yes I’m sure, but is Musk promoting vile abuse and death threats towards Newman as you’d said ?
 
Ubedizzytoo said:
Yes I’m sure, but is Musk promoting vile abuse and death threats towards Newman as you’d said ?
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Not directly, no. But IMO he's a good man gone bad, and bears direct responsibility for the way X has gone. He's a very clever man, knows exactly what he's doing, and although I'm wrong in my specific wording, X has taken a wrong turn under his ownership. I used to go on Twitter until I started getting bombarded with scantily clad AI generated women who wanted to follow me. Getting rid of them just seemed to encourage the algorhythms to throw more of them at my account. By the time I logged out for good there were over 1000 of them following me.
 
The Penguin said:
I used to go on Twitter until I started getting bombarded with scantily clad AI generated women who wanted to follow me. Getting rid of them just seemed to encourage the algorhythms to throw more of them at my account. By the time I logged out for good there were over 1000 of them following me.
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Some guys have all the luck. :emoticon-0103-cool:


TwoWrights, non Facebook/X account holder.



The views expressed in my posts are not necessarily mine.
 
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The Penguin said:
Not directly, no. But IMO he's a good man gone bad, and bears direct responsibility for the way X has gone. He's a very clever man, knows exactly what he's doing, and although I'm wrong in my specific wording, X has taken a wrong turn under his ownership. I used to go on Twitter until I started getting bombarded with scantily clad AI generated women who wanted to follow me. Getting rid of them just seemed to encourage the algorhythms to throw more of them at my account. By the time I logged out for good there were over 1000 of them following me.
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Are you sure they were AI? Is that normal on twitter? Asking for a friend
 
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The Penguin said:
Charisma is over-rated. You can be a total ar5ehole and still have charisma. It's not just what your talents are, it's what you do with them.
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TwoWrights said:
Some guys have all the luck. :emoticon-0103-cool:


TwoWrights, non Facebook/X account holder.



The views expressed in my posts are not necessarily mine.
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I have just signed up to 'X' on the strength of Mr Penguin's post.
 
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