Saints expelled from Play Offs by EFL

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I think the “what about…” needs to stop. Regardless of what Boro have done and who the “bad guys” are now, it does not lessen any of what we did and how much of a monumental **** up it all was. We still cheated multiple times, lied about the cheating and bullied staff into it. We shouldn’t be let off lightly and if other clubs now want to pile on the pressure then fair play to them in all honesty if there is evidence backing the claim. The idea that we’ve been punished enough and other clubs should back off is laughable, we deserve no goodwill from any of this.

The only people that deserve goodwill and patience are the poor 11 sods that have to step out on to the pitch next August. Everyone else at the moment can grovel and **** off.
What really needs to stop is this continual self flagellation over a relatively small transgression. If football operated at a higher moral level across the board (like golf for example) and what we had done genuinely damaged the integrity of the sport, I would agree with a harsh punishment. But it doesn't operate like that at all, and what's more you and every other fan accepts/overlooks that when you go to a match. Football doesn't have a good name or integrity to damage and anyone who thinks that Saints are the world's biggest cheats and "shouldn't be let off lightly" need to apply a dose of realism.
I'm not excusing what Saints have done, it was stupid because they risked a lot for very little. Spying is accepted outside of the times we were doing it so the cheating wasn't spying in itself, but spying at the wrong time. The punishment was way over the top and the "monumental **** up" only became monumental because of the determination by Boro and the EFL to make a disproportionate example out of us.
 
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TRS

Where do you want to start?

Loss of revenue on merchandise for play-off final?

Costs associated with play off semi finals including travel, insurance, etc

Overtime costs for ticket office staff.

Premium on costs for coach hire a short notice.

I appreciate anything assocoated with training will be a non-starter as Boro admitted to instigating this off their own back.

All sorts of ways this could go hence why EFL will redefine the behaviour of clubs before next season.
I still think it's a non starter (them coming after us that is). The things you mention wouldn't add up to a massive amount in the geat scheme of things and I'm sure all of that would be massively offset by the profit on 37,000 wembley tickets.

Your original post mentioned 'preparation'. In a footballing sense, in that regard, Middlesbrough had a massive advantage over Hull because they knew it would be us they were playing if (when) they won their case.

He may choose to go after the EFL, but I really don't think he's got anything to come after us for any longer and I am pretty confident that won't happen. Probably the biggest cost from your list is the ones from the semi-finals but even those would be offset by the profit from their home leg and again, I can't see them coming after Saints for that.
 
That is nonsense. You are just sticking the files in a computer. You are suggesting someone deletes all this stuff. In the last few companies I have worked at, the files just go into an archive folder. I am sure the CCTV coverage exists....it is just that there is nothing on it. People will not bother to delete. Too lazy.
I think you will find that most businesses use external CCTV companies recording and also storing for them. Normally linked with Alarms, door entry etc. It would be very Mickey Mouse to maintain your own on a PC in the office (lol we probably do). This service costs money and for regulatory reasons (eg in a PCI env) normally 90 days. I would be surprised if there is more than 3 months of CCTV.
 
I'd have to read it again but I'm sure they were already investigating those 2 games as part of evidence provided by Boro (which surely means whistleblower) - we didn't just outright fess up to those 2 for no reason.

In fact I'm pretty sure it said Boro had evidence of the Oxford one on the 7th which was the same day they caught Salt up there.
It does say that about Oxford (I missed it because they start referring to 'OU' instead of Oxford), but not Ipswich and the EFL didn't charge us until we admitted it and it's clearly stated that the EFL presented no evidence in relation to Oxford or Ipswich. So presumably any evidence they had wasn't enough to support charging us and wasn't worth presenting. I doubt the whistleblower has any more information. Boro wanted to get into the play off final. If the whistleblower knew of other incidents there would be no reason not to mention them at the earliest opportunity.

If there more more incidents then I'd expect the internal Southampton investigation to have found evidence of them and if they had then I think we would have presented it to the panel. Reasons:

1. Apart from the first response we seem to have co-operated in full. In particular we didn't seem to realise giving them the evidence relating to Ipswich and Oxford could/would result in more charges being added so I don't think we would have been worried about admitting more than two incidents.
2. Assuming the use of "incident" is correct, there was only one other incident being investigated, presumably Oxford. So why would we admit to Ipswich as well but not anything else? I'm sure any future panel would take concealing evidence very seriously so if you're going to conceal any evidence then you may as well conceal everything you can.
3. Related to 2, if the panel is competent I assume they asked Saints to confirm they had revealed everything they found and probably asked Tonda and the two analysts who were witnesses if these were the only times we spied. Lying to them would be pretty stupid if there's any chance of being found out or if you're one of the analysts and plan to reveal more later.
4. The Athletic have reported details of the message evidence (Tonda not being happy with the quality of info gathered, wearing Eastleigh gear etc) and it seems like the panel saw a lot of messages. They may well have asked for all whatsapp type messages to be disclosed and even if they didn't I'm sure they'd have wanted confirmation that we'd given them everything relevant.

The other question is how many training grounds are easily accessible anyway. Staplewood isn't from what I can see. Oxford's and Boro's are. I don't care enough to go and check every club's but unless there's some public business next door, like Boro, or part of the same complex, like Oxford, then it's not going to be easy to get in.
 
It does say that about Oxford (I missed it because they start referring to 'OU' instead of Oxford), but not Ipswich and the EFL didn't charge us until we admitted it and it's clearly stated that the EFL presented no evidence in relation to Oxford or Ipswich. So presumably any evidence they had wasn't enough to support charging us and wasn't worth presenting. I doubt the whistleblower has any more information. Boro wanted to get into the play off final. If the whistleblower knew of other incidents there would be no reason not to mention them at the earliest opportunity.

If there more more incidents then I'd expect the internal Southampton investigation to have found evidence of them and if they had then I think we would have presented it to the panel. Reasons:

1. Apart from the first response we seem to have co-operated in full. In particular we didn't seem to realise giving them the evidence relating to Ipswich and Oxford could/would result in more charges being added so I don't think we would have been worried about admitting more than two incidents.
2. Assuming the use of "incident" is correct, there was only one other incident being investigated, presumably Oxford. So why would we admit to Ipswich as well but not anything else? I'm sure any future panel would take concealing evidence very seriously so if you're going to conceal any evidence then you may as well conceal everything you can.
3. Related to 2, if the panel is competent I assume they asked Saints to confirm they had revealed everything they found and probably asked Tonda and the two analysts who were witnesses if these were the only times we spied. Lying to them would be pretty stupid if there's any chance of being found out or if you're one of the analysts and plan to reveal more later.
4. The Athletic have reported details of the message evidence (Tonda not being happy with the quality of info gathered, wearing Eastleigh gear etc) and it seems like the panel saw a lot of messages. They may well have asked for all whatsapp type messages to be disclosed and even if they didn't I'm sure they'd have wanted confirmation that we'd given them everything relevant.

The other question is how many training grounds are easily accessible anyway. Staplewood isn't from what I can see. Oxford's and Boro's are. I don't care enough to go and check every club's but unless there's some public business next door, like Boro, or part of the same complex, like Oxford, then it's not going to be easy to get in.

You make some fair points but I just don't believe we did it in December but didn't bother again until April.

I personally doubt that can be proved though so don't see any further points.
 
Congrats to Hull. They were messed about through no fault of their own. Good luck in the EPL…sadly they will need it. Tough league and VAR :mad:
City will be well backed next season in both a supporter and financial terms...Acun is no fool when it comes to attracting major investors!!!! Good luck Saints next season.....Hammer those Smoggie goons back to the dark ages...Well I guess some of them have never seen light or fire.
 
...and that was against better opposition than Hull.
That's a matter of opinion <laugh> <laugh><laugh>. Seriously though, thanks for all of your good wishes Saints fans. I'm sure your current issues will sort themselves out and if you can keep your squad together, no reason why you won't be right up there next season.
(You just know the fixture list is going to throw up Southampton v Middlesborough on the first day of next season!)
 
That's a matter of opinion <laugh> <laugh><laugh>. Seriously though, thanks for all of your good wishes Saints fans. I'm sure your current issues will sort themselves out and if you can keep your squad together, no reason why you won't be right up there next season.
(You just know the fixture list is going to throw up Southampton v Middlesborough on the first day of next season!)
And we’ll announce both starting 11s the day before :bandit:
 
That's a matter of opinion <laugh> <laugh><laugh>. Seriously though, thanks for all of your good wishes Saints fans. I'm sure your current issues will sort themselves out and if you can keep your squad together, no reason why you won't be right up there next season.
(You just know the fixture list is going to throw up Southampton v Middlesborough on the first day of next season!)
Enjoy the PL and prove the pundits wrong!
 
*BREAKING NEWS* Boro have requested the game be replayed between Hull and Southampton, however if Southampton win they feel they should replace them in the premier league due to spygate.

Sources close to the club tell me this is the only way they expect to leave the championship after nearly 10 years and they feel they should have gotten a bigger reward to make up for all the tears.

Neil Bassour of the EFL board seems to be pushing for it and is looking at hiring another “independent” panel of Mark Schwartzer, Stuart Downing and Dael Fry
 
When I posted an Obituary message around 20th May, I fully expected a resurrection, revelation and resolution, didn't ever foresee a total blank!
 
*BREAKING NEWS* Boro have requested the game be replayed between Hull and Southampton, however if Southampton win they feel they should replace them in the premier league due to spygate.

Sources close to the club tell me this is the only way they expect to leave the championship after nearly 10 years and they feel they should have gotten a bigger reward to make up for all the tears.

Neil Bassour of the EFL board seems to be pushing for it and is looking at hiring another “independent” panel of Mark Schwartzer, Stuart Downing and Dael Fry
Can add Adam Johnson to that list also.

Didn’t he start out his career at Boro?
 
And the author of this article just so happens to be someone called 'Nathan Salt'....:bandit:
We don't need to pour more salt on the wounds! I wonder if they are ever going to consult with the fan base on how we are to proceed, it's not great being left in the dark, is there any actual sign of human life at SM or Staplewood?