Off Topic Politics Thread

[ImpSaint]

Regarding the challenge to Starmer, I find it fascinating that Streeting has come out and stated that Brexit has been a disaster. Everyone is aware that this is blatantly obvious yet I think that this will present a challenge to Burnham. I am not sure how he will respond to this and whether he intends to campaign on an anti-Brexit ticket. If he is sensible, he will support re-joining the EU. My fear is that this will open the kind of debate in the Labour party that destroyed the Conservatives. Just have a nasty suspicion that Farage will skewer Burnham in this respect when it comes to the bye-election. I am far from convinced that Burnham will be the favourite in this bye election.

IT is 100% timing.
Streeting - I am backing Burnham, we want him in this contest.
Streeting - I am going to be campaigning for Burnham
Streeting - same day - Brexit Brexit Brexit

Within hours everybody is asking Burnham what he says and thinks about Streeting's announcements...........just when he is trying to win a leave seat. lol

Obvious time bomb thrown with Streeting hoping for a "we tried, we were close....ah well here's my 81 names.

It also shows he doesn't care if Labour lose the next GE. He will happily put Brexit back forefront as long as he has a chance to stick his name on the cup for a couple of years.

the comment about Farage skewering him on the question is laughable. Streeting gazumped him! Streeting is the one doing the skewering. Farage can sit back and see how Burnham handles it and then if it is going too well for Burnham then go in..........unless Streeting gets in there first again. Streeting pinning everything on the FPBE vote getting him the leadership.

 

[ImpSaint]

HIGNFY
"Jacob Rees-Mogg has called on the Conservatives to 'stand aside for Reform' at the Makerfield by-election, as those extra 6 votes could come in really handy."
ME
Mogglydyte and the gatemouthed gobshite can **** right off, suppurating boils on the backside of Britain that they are.

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Tories got 11% in third place in 2024. That could be useful for Farage and a tough call for Tories to make!

 

[Ian Thumwood]

Tories got 11% in third place in 2024. That could be useful for Farage and a tough call for Tories to make!

This is probably one of the most important bye-elections in years. Labour are playing their best hand with Burnham yet the party is hamstrung because they cannot campaign on an anti-Brexit ticket because they will easily lose the seat to Reform. If Tory support is as low as 11%, then these voters could be significant for Reform. I think that this situation will replicate itself across the country come the General Election.

What I do not understand is why those who were set against Brexit have failed to kill off the lie that leaving the European Union has been beneficial. It has been a total disaster socially and economically. Coupled with this, the are now many reports of both Reform and Green party candidates from two weeks ago being forced to quit because of irregularities. I just find it hugely disappointing that Labour are in such trouble and that Starmer could not start his term on a positive footing. They are the only party capable of running this country even if I am sympathetic to the progressive Green Party. For me, Labour are in a position where they should be dictating policy and setting an agenda for the next ten years. They should not be running scared of Reform yet, here we are with Labour having an uninspiring leader, with the best possible replacement likely to face a very close call in a bye election and a self-serving politician in Streeting who is the only one sensible to call for a reversal of Brexit whilst being unelectable for the vast majority of the electorate. Labour just seem to be making the same mistakes as the Conservatives whilst being part of the political establishment who consistently fail to hold Reform to account. The fact that Farage received a £5 million donation that was not declared and has not faced the kind of scrutiny which would see his role as an MP jeopardised is staggering. Labour are doing nothing to undermine Farage and the failures of Reform councils needs to be taken to the top of the agenda. It is shocking that Reform seem to have more traction than Labour and that the working classes cannot understand that a Reform vote will make the rich even richer.

 

[Archers Road]

Tories got 11% in third place in 2024. That could be useful for Farage and a tough call for Tories to make!

Why would the Tories want a Reform victory?

 

[Lemons and Oranges]

I suspect that the national press who are calling for Starmer to go are in a quandary about this. The (mainly right wing) press are anti Labour, which in their eyes equates to anti-Starmer. So do they support Andy Burnham, and go against their pro-Tory/pro-Reform stance, or go against Burnham, so that if Burnham loses, Starmer remains unopposed as PM?

 

[Archers Road]

I suspect that the national press who are calling for Starmer to go are in a quandary about this. The (mainly right wing) press are anti Labour, which in their eyes equates to anti-Starmer. So do they support Andy Burnham, and go against their pro-Tory/pro-Reform stance, or go against Burnham, so that if Burnham loses, Starmer remains unopposed as PM?

The Express, Mail and Telegraph will continue to set the attack dogs on anything red or green.

The rest of the media including the BBC, whose anti Labour bias is visible from space, will amplify anything that reflects badly on any government; thereby helping make government impossible. Burnham will get a sympathetic hearing until he’s in government, if he ever is. Then he’ll be fair game for relentless negative headlines and myopic cynicism.

Farage will continue to get a free ride from pretty much everyone except the Guardian and the Mirror.

Most people under 50 will get their news from social media, which is an absolute cesspit of festering bitterness and resentment.

In short, we’re ****ed.

But there is one ray of hope; in spite of all the considerable wealth and influence pushing their agenda, the far right may have peaked, here and across Europe. 25-30% appears to be the limit for Reform, National Rally, AfD etc. And if we are becoming ungovernable, Italy has been that way for decades but is still a wonderful place to visit (not sure I’d want to live there, but the food and the football would help).

 

[ImpSaint]

This is probably one of the most important bye-elections in years. Labour are playing their best hand with Burnham yet the party is hamstrung because they cannot campaign on an anti-Brexit ticket because they will easily lose the seat to Reform. If Tory support is as low as 11%, then these voters could be significant for Reform. I think that this situation will replicate itself across the country come the General Election.

What I do not understand is why those who were set against Brexit have failed to kill off the lie that leaving the European Union has been beneficial. It has been a total disaster socially and economically. Coupled with this, the are now many reports of both Reform and Green party candidates from two weeks ago being forced to quit because of irregularities. I just find it hugely disappointing that Labour are in such trouble and that Starmer could not start his term on a positive footing. They are the only party capable of running this country even if I am sympathetic to the progressive Green Party. For me, Labour are in a position where they should be dictating policy and setting an agenda for the next ten years. They should not be running scared of Reform yet, here we are with Labour having an uninspiring leader, with the best possible replacement likely to face a very close call in a bye election and a self-serving politician in Streeting who is the only one sensible to call for a reversal of Brexit whilst being unelectable for the vast majority of the electorate. Labour just seem to be making the same mistakes as the Conservatives whilst being part of the political establishment who consistently fail to hold Reform to account. The fact that Farage received a £5 million donation that was not declared and has not faced the kind of scrutiny which would see his role as an MP jeopardised is staggering. Labour are doing nothing to undermine Farage and the failures of Reform councils needs to be taken to the top of the agenda. It is shocking that Reform seem to have more traction than Labour and that the working classes cannot understand that a Reform vote will make the rich even richer.

Torys 11% is virtually equal to the Lib Dem/Green vote in 2024 so those kinda cancel each other out. Reform were already 2nd in 2024 and so its how much of the Labour vote Burnham retains and how much that he doesn't spills right or left. It will be close.

 

[ImpSaint]

Why would the Tories want a Reform victory?

Thy wouldn't but do they want a Burnham victory and then a possible revitalised Labour party? Its politics and there are trade offs hence why The Greens are arguing about not campaigning hard or going after the seat as well.

 

[Libby]

Imagine posting on the politics fred tonight...

 

[thereisonlyoneno7]

Imagine posting on the politics fred tonight...

Was going to say the same thing

 

[StJabbo1]

HIGNFY
"Reform UK are advertising for a "highly organised vetting officer", after repeatedly letting in members with dodgy views and embarrassing pasts."

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[StJabbo1]

HIGNFY
SpaceX going public could make Elon Musk a trillionaire. Which, if split evenly across all his children, gives them about a tenner each.

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[Ian Thumwood]

I am disappointed that, having strangled Cuba's economy for so many years, they are now persecuting their elderly former politicians as well as labelling them a danger to America. I am taken aback that no one else is commenting on this. The country is being run into the ground due to American sanctions and there is the threat of a potential invasion.

 

[ImpSaint]

I am disappointed that, having strangled Cuba's economy for so many years, they are now persecuting their elderly former politicians as well as labelling them a danger to America. I am taken aback that no one else is commenting on this. The country is being run into the ground due to American sanctions and there is the threat of a potential invasion.

Cuba has been under US sanctions for decades. Joe Biden said in his campaign speeches that he was going to remove them. Latinos on board and into the president's job and NEWSFLASH he didn't keep his promise.

The current problems may well be something that you can argue against but you are ignoring the massive mismanagement of a communist country's economy by their own government that has no actual export volume other than educated folks, is over reliant on imports and tourism and not part of the free market with 70% of their economy managed by government cliques!

What Trump is jumping on is their attempts at being a middle man to get oil to Russia and China as they used their position there to try and flout international sanctions. The UK (last few days) and the EU brazenly continuing to buy from Russia is another matter but Cuba was essentially being a fence to make money as the middleman.

You can blame Trump's recent and past policies all you like but the fact of the matter is they are the small bit on the top of what has been a failed economy for a long long time before Trump won his first term and yet is still one of the shining lights of the western left (like Venezuela) ignoring the vast problems those leaderships created and still continue.

Just because they make policy that you like the sound of does not mean it is good or workable policy or is not to blame for a country's woes!

I find it difficult to understand the left's obsession with Cuba and Venezuela, that ignores how much of a basketcase of corruption and authoritarian control over the people they are and just want to pin everything on Trump.

Yes Trump has made it worse but it was most of the way there already!

 

[Archers Road]

Cuba has been under US sanctions for decades. Joe Biden said in his campaign speeches that he was going to remove them. Latinos on board and into the president's job and NEWSFLASH he didn't keep his promise.

The current problems may well be something that you can argue against but you are ignoring the massive mismanagement of a communist country's economy by their own government that has no actual export volume other than educated folks, is over reliant on imports and tourism and not part of the free market with 0% of their economy managed by government cliques!

What Trump is jumping on is their attempts at being a middle man to get oil to Russia and China as they used their position there to try and flout international sanctions. The UK (last few days) and the EU brazenly continuing to buy from Russia is another matter but Cuba was essentially being a fence to make money as the middleman.

You can blame Trump's recent and past policies all you lie but the fact of the matter is they are the small bit on the top of what has been a failed economy for a long long time before Trump won his first term and yet is still one of the shining lights of the western left (like Venezuela) ignoring the vast problems those leaderships created and still continue.

Just because they make policy that you like the sound of does not mean it is good or workable policy or is not to blame for a country's woes!

I find it difficult to understand the left's obsession with Cuba and Venezuela, that ignores how much of a basketcase of corruption and authoritarian control over the people they are and just want to pin everything on Trump.

Yes Trump has made it worse but it was most of the way there already!

I think many people, regardless of how they might feel about Castro’s regime, respect Cuba for resisting the U.S. for decades.

Trump and Marco Rubio might want to bear that decades long resistance in mind, before embarking on any ‘adventures’.

 

[StJabbo1]

Is Trump ramping up the Cuba rhetoric to deflect from his failed war in the middle East? Six weeks said the self professed president of peace or is it TACO in chief? It appears his assertion that the Iranians wanted a deal so badly it was all going to be over so quickly is blustering bollocks and three months later it's an ongoing situation he needs to find a face saving way out of. It looks like the tangerine turd is the loser caught in a strategic nightmare that Netanyahu and Putin benefit from alongside all the dodgy alledged insider dealings as Trump U turns like a demented corkscrew.

 

[Ian Thumwood]

I think many people, regardless of how they might feel about Castro’s regime, respect Cuba for resisting the U.S. for decades.

Trump and Marco Rubio might want to bear that decades long resistance in mind, before embarking on any ‘adventures’.

But they also respect Cuba for often being the first country there whenever there is a medical emergency in the Third World, especially Africa. They are respected as a nation by the medical community. It is only 60 years of embargoes which have made Cuba fail. Prior to Castro, the Batista government was also notorious corrupt and involved with organised crime.

There is always an element of Joseph Conrad's "Nostromo" with these South American countries.

 

[ImpSaint]

But they also respect Cuba for often being the first country there whenever there is a medical emergency in the Third World, especially Africa. They are respected as a nation by the medical community. It is only 60 years of embargoes which have made Cuba fail. Prior to Castro, the Batista government was also notorious corrupt and involved with organised crime.

There is always an element of Joseph Conrad's "Nostromo" with these South American countries.

Which is kinda amusing because I read an article in the NY times from 2024 (before Trump go back in) and one of the statements in that article was something along the lines of "They have nothing to export other than doctors" which you should weigh up against their failing health system before Trump which continues!

Its fine championing how well they do across the world but you should then ask why their domestic health system has been failing for so long?

 

[Ian Thumwood]

I went to a gig in France back in the early 2000s that included Cuban musicians and this was the first time I appreciated just how respected the Cubans are amongst the Left in Europe. The audience were all waving Cuban flags and many had t-shirts on with the image o Che Guevara on them. There have been plenty of other South American governments of socialist persuasion but only the Venezuela of Chavez has ever come close to getting that level of cache amongst the European Left. Never been to any other gig where there has been support for the politics of a foreign country such as this albeit I recall a few that were anti-apartheid.

I do wonder just how much US sanctions have impacted on Cuba. Not sure that the Cubans would be a regional economic powerhouse if they had avoided sanctions . The Americans have had their eye on Cuba since the late 1890s when they kicked the Spanish out.

 

[Archers Road]

I went to a gig in France back in the early 2000s that included Cuban musicians and this was the first time I appreciated just how respected the Cubans are amongst the Left in Europe. The audience were all waving Cuban flags and many had t-shirts on with the image o Che Guevara on them. There have been plenty of other South American governments of socialist persuasion but only the Venezuela of Chavez has ever come close to getting that level of cache amongst the European Left. Never been to any other gig where there has been support for the politics of a foreign country such as this albeit I recall a few that were anti-apartheid.

I do wonder just how much US sanctions have impacted on Cuba. Not sure that the Cubans would be a regional economic powerhouse if they had avoided sanctions . The Americans have had their eye on Cuba since the late 1890s when they kicked the Spanish out.

Ian, are you aware that this week is the centenary of Miles Davis’ birth, and that Radio 3 are marking the occasion with a series of programmes about Miles and his influence on the music of the 20th Century?