Saints expelled from Play Offs by EFL

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Had a day to think and get over it.. But ultimately it's still just a ****ing mush in a bush. I can't see what benefit is gained and we were just ****ing stupid to get caught.

The holier than thou trial by media narrative was driven by Boro to such an extent that this 'cheating is cheating' line has allowed to be the ultimate framing for this matter. It's almost as if we have been allowed to become the lightning rod for the wider football communities misplaced anger at systemic cheating and corruption. A suitably big club it gets people looking, but small enough to not upset the big sponsors.

Ultimately, we are just the idiots that got caught. And our moron CEO has come out looking like a completely inept woke idiot in an industry full of hyenas.
 
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It’s not about what impact it had, you were cheating to try and gain promotion and £200 million so as your punishment you are correctly being removed of the chance to gain promotion and £200 million.
 
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Dylan Groak said:
It’s not about what impact it had, you were cheating to try and gain promotion and £200 million so as your punishment you are correctly being removed of the chance to gain promotion and £200 million.
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And players cheat every game to win points for their team, which in turn gets them higher up the table, and into the playoffs etc. Should we replay every game multiple times to get the fairest possible result?
 
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Ian Thumwood said:
I do think that the Spygate business has opened up a massive can of worms. I am of the opinion that we should not be reinstated if we cheated and appealing that the penalty is disproportionate ignores the fact that we cheated and that this was a massive lack of respect for the other football clubs. My observations are as follows:-

1. I think that Southampton should not only refund the Saints supporters who bought ticket, but also need to reimburse Boro fans too. We cheated and the expulsion means that both legs of the tie were irrelevant now that we have been found guilty.

2. The rules between EFL and Prem League need to be consistent with penalties applies across the leagues as well as the "standards" being consistent."


3. Teams should be prevented from spying on each other's training sessions period. We gave been lucky as only having been caught 3 times. I am sure that we must have tried to do this with every club since Tonda took charge.

4. I think that we are fast approaching the situation where the lawyers are likely to have more of a say of where a club finishes in the league than football performance. Going forward, I think that clubs need to sign up to a charter whereby they forfeit all points if caught spying. I would like to see staff found guilty of spying receive immediate bans from football. There needs to be a charter in place whereby all clubs agree to abide by stricter rules with sets rules so everyone is aware that cheating has defined consequences.

5. Current legal situation. I think that Southampton have not been unduly punished and have been treated leniently. I would like every club to review whether or not personnel from Southampton have been seen at the club and the EFL to review the penalty. I believe that every league position needs to be considered and that where we might have affected the league position by cheating, the clubs have a prima facie case to sue us. I just feel that we need to be made an example of and something put it place which underscores that we have a liability to all clubs in the league . It need not be excessive but I think we do have a liability for all clubs in the league. You cheat against one team and it will have an impact of other clubs too. I do not feel that suspension from the play-offs is at all sufficient. The spying affects all teams in the league to varying extents.

6. I am disappointed that we have lodged an appeal as it is suggestive that we have not taken the allegations seriously. Parson's statement is a disappointment. He should have been far more conciliatory .

7. Any future penalties should be absolved if we have new owners.

8. 36 month bans for any staff proved to have been guilty of association with the spying operation.
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Do you actually support Saints Ian? Genuine question
 
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What I find interesting amongst all the noise this has created, is the relative silence from anyone currently in the game. I don't remember hearing a comment from any manager/player/owner from any other club. Apart from the press, it's been mainly ex pros and pundits (and fans of course). I do wonder if it's a case of "those in glass houses..."
 
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EasyBreezer said:
Had a day to think and get over it.. But ultimately it's still just a ****ing mush in a bush. I can't see what benefit is gained and we were just ****ing stupid to get caught.

The holier than thou trial by media narrative was driven by Boro to such an extent that this 'cheating is cheating' line has allowed to be the ultimate framing for this matter. It's almost as if we have been allowed to become the lightning rod for the wider football communities misplaced anger at systemic cheating and corruption. A suitably big club it gets people looking, but small enough to not upset the big sponsors.

Ultimately, we are just the idiots that got caught. And our moron CEO has come out looking like a completely inept woke idiot in an industry full of hyenas.
Click to expand...
Breezer

I can see you point of view. I agree that Boro have dictated the narrative. However, we have bee caught cheating on 3 occasions and doubtless did it to other cubs and have not been caught. Parson's statement shows a lack of contrition but this seems typical of the club culture if our coching stff were laughing about it on Whatsapp and Tonda's own Whatsapp account was instrumental in the panel making the decision to throw us out.

The fact that other clubs may find ways of cheating, I think this should be used as a wake up call by the club. If I was the EFL and had to deal with an appeal from Saints, I would be more inclined to increase the penalty in those circumstances either by increasing the point deduction or doing something more drastic like relegation.

I feel so ashamed by Saints. We played some brilliant football and we will never know whether this was a consequence of spying. It was not at all necessary. I think that the EPL penalty sends a message to other clubs not to cheat and also will make them out in consistent measures which will precent this happening in future.

The comment about Barnsley and Tonda is interesting. I think they need to be investigated too to see if it happened there.
 
LincolnSaint said:
On a plus note, I no longer hate Derby

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Imagine being in the final if you were only 1 of the 2 teams who had not caused an infringement.

This is why the EFL needs to get a grip. We do not need titles , play-offs and relegations decided by lawyers. Football needs to get it's act together with spying, cheating on the pitch and financial irregularity. Title and relegation needs to be decided on the pitch and in a sporting fashion. I get gamesmanship to a degree but we deserve the book being thrown at us for doing this and getting caught 3 times.
 
Ian Thumwood said:
Imagine being in the final if you were only 1 of the 2 teams who had not caused an infringement.

This is why the EFL needs to get a grip. We do not need titles , play-offs and relegations decided by lawyers. Football needs to get it's act together with spying, cheating on the pitch and financial irregularity. Title and relegation needs to be decided on the pitch and in a sporting fashion. I get gamesmanship to a degree but we deserve the book being thrown at us for doing this and getting caught 3 times.
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You are massively missing the point. Things will never be perfect and cheating will always happen. The point here is that the on-the-pitch result of two games was decided, in fact reversed, by lawyers.

Now every game is at risk of being changed post fact, and the strengths of your lawyers may be important than the quality of your players.

The games will become worthless.

Hence my point yesterday that this decision is like VAR on steroids.
 
Ian Thumwood said:
Breezer

I can see you point of view. I agree that Boro have dictated the narrative. However, we have bee caught cheating on 3 occasions and doubtless did it to other cubs and have not been caught. Parson's statement shows a lack of contrition but this seems typical of the club culture if our coching stff were laughing about it on Whatsapp and Tonda's own Whatsapp account was instrumental in the panel making the decision to throw us out.

The fact that other clubs may find ways of cheating, I think this should be used as a wake up call by the club. If I was the EFL and had to deal with an appeal from Saints, I would be more inclined to increase the penalty in those circumstances either by increasing the point deduction or doing something more drastic like relegation.

I feel so ashamed by Saints. We played some brilliant football and we will never know whether this was a consequence of spying. It was not at all necessary. I think that the EPL penalty sends a message to other clubs not to cheat and also will make them out in consistent measures which will precent this happening in future.

The comment about Barnsley and Tonda is interesting. I think they need to be investigated too to see if it happened there.
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We got caught on one occasion and our deluded CEO sang like a canary whilst eating a prawn sandwich at Boros hospitality. Weak.

There is a reason no former chairmen and analysts have jumped on the media bluster wagon, every club is obviously at it.

I can't get my head around this ashamed nonsense I am afraid.
 
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Gastonomy said:
You are massively missing the point. Things will never be perfect and cheating will always happen. The point here is that the on-the-pitch result of two games was decided, in fact reversed, by lawyers.

Now every game is at risk of being changed post fact, and the strengths of your lawyers may be important than the quality of your players.

The games will become worthless.

Hence my point yesterday that this decision is like VAR on steroids.
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There's a joke in there that fans are unhappy at VAR, but ok with lawyers reversing the result of a two match game that had already been sanction to be played...
 
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