Fair points, if that was the case we'd probably want it done quickly though as it's our best chance of mitigation.
Not that I believe for a second he'd be working on his own. Much more likely that Tonda was involved than he wasn't imo.
Saints expelled from Play Offs by EFL
- Thread starter tomw24
- Start date
-
Please bear with us on the new site integration and fixing any known bugs over the coming days. If you can not log in please try resetting your password and check your spam box. If you have tried these steps and are still struggling email [email protected] with your username/registered email address
-
Fair points, if that was the case we'd probably want it done quickly though as it's our best chance of mitigation.
Not that I believe for a second he'd be working on his own. Much more likely that Tonda was involved than he wasn't imo.
Hull haven't released any ticket details despite saying they would today. Clearly, we've been told to remove all details so everything from both clubs gets released tomorrow.That ticket thing is bound to fuel the rumours
I'd ****ing piss myself if I was completely wrong. Still don't see it though.
Yeah I don't for a second think it means anything. Plenty will though which is funny.
Yeah I don’t buy him working alone either.
That said it really has been blown so far out of proportion. I think it fits the wider societal problem we have in the UK of people can’t wait to appear offended. Taking the virtuous stance.
****ing melts.
It's when we find out the poor chap has a fetish for football socks and the "footage" is a load of close ups of people feet..
No wonder he scarpered...Or a sock job
There's a funny photo of the alleged incident on the daily mail now. The comments section is good. Most people think its just nonsense
I think West Ham agreed to pay Sheff Utd something like £20m over the Tevez and Mascherano stuff so maybe that's where that number comes from.
I'm not sure if I would ever be able to stop laughing if that happened
I have been worried about this following the media onslaught throughout the day. My thoughts about this are as follows:-
1. I think that Middlesborough have massively over-played this. How can you get the kind of information from a mobile phone that would be sufficient to allow you to gain some technical advantage ? I think that the "spy" was sent there to check out the injury situation and see who was training and who wasn't. I cannot believe that the information gathering process could gave gone beyond this. The 'Boro allegations were massively exaggerated and the photos are almost farcical. Surely the photos must be egg in the face of 'Boro. Given the open nature of the training ground, most of us could have driven up to Middlesborough and risked breathing in the industrial pollution to get photos which would have been little better. The claims now make Gibson look like a hysterical drama queen.
2. I think that Blackmore / Tessum were probably correct last night when they said that the bloke was not acting on his own volition. Just think that someone in the coaching set up wanted to know who was injured and who was available for 'Boro. I would not be surprised if Tonda instructed this but his comment today about making a statement about the incident after the judgement is interesting. Just wonder if he is worried about being thrown under the bus in the internal enquiry.
3. TIcket sales - I think that the suspension of sales would be sensible pending a resolution of the dispute. I am surprised the the info regarding sales went up on line at all. I cannot see this the sense in selling tickets for a match we may be prevented from playing in. I see this as a precaution as opposed to an admission of guilt. There would be plenty of claims against Saints from supporters, coach companies, etc, etc should we be found guilty.
4. It is telling that no other clubs have come up with similar accusations of spying against Saints. If this had happened, I would have to say that I would be in favour of Saints being kicked out. It would explain the run of impressive results. However, I just feel that this is complete b/s. The 'Boro incident seems like a poorly organised and slapstick effort that was unlikely to have really garnered any information that would have been beneficial.
5. If Saints get kicked out, I understand that the legal implications would cost more than the EPL could defend. Just wondered how the EFL might manage that and whether they do something like threaten expulsion from the Championship in order to make us accept conceding the play offs. I am not sure how the EPL can penalise Saints other than by a points deduction or a fine without cause major dfisruption to the league and given other clubs the potential to lodge claims against them. On the face of the photographic evidence , I just think that there will be a fine and no points deduction. the EFL will leave it to 'Boro to sue Saints but they will find that difficult unless they can demonstrate that we both used the information garnered and then gain advantage.
6. I agree that Boro have no choice but to keep training until there is a judgement.
7. I have to say that Hull are the unwitting victims of all this as they will no know who they need to prepare to play against.
I can see both clubs being censured for the spying and the ridiculous over-reaction. I get Gibson's grievance but losing their manager to Wolves was far more fundamental to why they will be playing in the Championship next season. They have a better case against Wolves than us.
1. I think that Middlesborough have massively over-played this. How can you get the kind of information from a mobile phone that would be sufficient to allow you to gain some technical advantage ? I think that the "spy" was sent there to check out the injury situation and see who was training and who wasn't. I cannot believe that the information gathering process could gave gone beyond this. The 'Boro allegations were massively exaggerated and the photos are almost farcical. Surely the photos must be egg in the face of 'Boro. Given the open nature of the training ground, most of us could have driven up to Middlesborough and risked breathing in the industrial pollution to get photos which would have been little better. The claims now make Gibson look like a hysterical drama queen.
2. I think that Blackmore / Tessum were probably correct last night when they said that the bloke was not acting on his own volition. Just think that someone in the coaching set up wanted to know who was injured and who was available for 'Boro. I would not be surprised if Tonda instructed this but his comment today about making a statement about the incident after the judgement is interesting. Just wonder if he is worried about being thrown under the bus in the internal enquiry.
3. TIcket sales - I think that the suspension of sales would be sensible pending a resolution of the dispute. I am surprised the the info regarding sales went up on line at all. I cannot see this the sense in selling tickets for a match we may be prevented from playing in. I see this as a precaution as opposed to an admission of guilt. There would be plenty of claims against Saints from supporters, coach companies, etc, etc should we be found guilty.
4. It is telling that no other clubs have come up with similar accusations of spying against Saints. If this had happened, I would have to say that I would be in favour of Saints being kicked out. It would explain the run of impressive results. However, I just feel that this is complete b/s. The 'Boro incident seems like a poorly organised and slapstick effort that was unlikely to have really garnered any information that would have been beneficial.
5. If Saints get kicked out, I understand that the legal implications would cost more than the EPL could defend. Just wondered how the EFL might manage that and whether they do something like threaten expulsion from the Championship in order to make us accept conceding the play offs. I am not sure how the EPL can penalise Saints other than by a points deduction or a fine without cause major dfisruption to the league and given other clubs the potential to lodge claims against them. On the face of the photographic evidence , I just think that there will be a fine and no points deduction. the EFL will leave it to 'Boro to sue Saints but they will find that difficult unless they can demonstrate that we both used the information garnered and then gain advantage.
6. I agree that Boro have no choice but to keep training until there is a judgement.
7. I have to say that Hull are the unwitting victims of all this as they will no know who they need to prepare to play against.
I can see both clubs being censured for the spying and the ridiculous over-reaction. I get Gibson's grievance but losing their manager to Wolves was far more fundamental to why they will be playing in the Championship next season. They have a better case against Wolves than us.
One thing I read in one of the paper reports - that we have, under Tonda, one of the best set piece records and that this was somehow suspicious. It’s an attacking set piece record ffs. Which has no relation to us ‘spying’. Just another ridiculous piece of hyperbole in a whole steaming turd of it.
Ah ok. That is what West Ham paid to Sheffield United. I probably don’t really need to get into why the idea of the same figure in this case is ludicrous
We finished 21st in set piece goals conceded!
Indeed. The TV money has gone up hugely since 2007 so Boro will want far more than that.
I get the feeling we are going to be made an example of and get kicked out.
But what I do hope, is that Boro aren’t given a reprieve and Hull are automatically promoted
Do think the whole thing is ridiculous and has been blown out of proportion
But what I do hope, is that Boro aren’t given a reprieve and Hull are automatically promoted
Do think the whole thing is ridiculous and has been blown out of proportion
If it was just to check injuries then pictures shouldn’t be needed
It does seem like the picture that has been leaked has actually made Boro look more daft. As people have said - the comment sections online (usually the literal dregs of the internet and full of the most sensational overreactions) are now apparently laughing at them
I’d assume Tonda only gets thrown under the bus if it seems like doing it is the only way to avoid a playoff expulsion or a massive points deduction. And we can’t know that
Where has the idea that he has instigated this come from? Boro fans are saying it but does this fall under the head coach remit all the time? Could it be scouting or director of football related?
Aren’t Boro claiming that there are up to 5 or 6 other clubs and doing their best to collect the evidence themselves? And apparently an ex saints whistleblower? So I’m not sure you can be confident about point 4. But why would they go to Boro ?
I’m pretty sure responding to a potential lawsuit for throwing us out which will be based on the grounds that said act is overstepping and draconian as a punishment by threatening and even more draconian a punishment (suspension from the league if we try to sue them) will be viewed extremely favourably by lawyers involved…
Wouldn’t exactly be a solid basis for claiming “our punishments are not punitive”. And such an attempt would surely be stayed pending resolution of our case. Further increasing the stakes and making it smoke that the EFL surely don’t want
I don’t think Boro can try and go after the EFL if the don’t kick us out. They can try and go after us but not the EFL as there is no precedent for kicking us out that they can point to. But I’d say we can go after the EFL if they do kick us out. Not necessarily successfully. But maybe that’s my bias speaking. And I’m not sure we would but who knows. We might just have to eat crow on it
As to Hull - wonder if they could have a claim against Boro, EFL or us if they lose the final - pointing to the uncertainty. I’d expect they’d try so this isn’t over. The delay isn’t our doing. The EFL are the ones saying it has to be before the final but not ruling out an expulsion.