Saints expelled from Play Offs by EFL

[Lemons and Oranges]

If it’s Rumours , I doubt we’ll be able to go our own way .
We will be chained to the Championship .

With an albatross round our necks...

 

[Lemons and Oranges]

Gary is Billy.

So if Gary is Billy, who is Spartacus?

 

[SaintElliot]

Theres more chance of PSG buying Downes than us being kicked out of the play offs. Simply never going to happen.

Just my opinion though I believe that spying on opposition is more 'immoral' than breaching FFP. The FFP rules themselves are massively immoral in my book.

Its also immoral to "cheat" and dive to win a penalty that could decide the final outcome of the game. We all hate it, and rightfully so, but it happens in every game in the country (including Saints players) but those incidents in a game have far bigger consequences then filming some training sessions, imo. If the spy had trespassed on private property to do it i.e. the training ground itself, then that would be really bad.

 

[Libby]

Its also immoral to "cheat" and dive to win a penalty that could decide the final outcome of the game. We all hate it, and rightfully so, but it happens in every game in the country (including Saints players) but those incidents in a game have far bigger consequences then filming some training sessions, imo. If the spy had trespassed on private property to do it i.e. the training ground itself, then that would be really bad.

Don't hugely disagree with what you've written there tbh mate, my point was you made a direct comparison to FFP as in you believe that to be worse which I disagree with.

Re diving think the difference for me is diving is (largely) generally an individual decision rather than a club led initiative and is made worse by referee inaction on lots of fouls (a couple of good examples today actually where had our player gone down we'd have got a foul but they stayed on their feet so we didn't).

Sadly play acting is an established part of the game here as much as I dislike that fact, and for that reason it feels less sneaky to me than what we've done.

I don't think we should argue that just because one poor behaviour is established that we should allow another one to become so as well.

 

[RedandWhiteManofKent]

I would take a 6 point deduction this season.

What would that mean.

Oh we would play Boro in the play offs.

 

[All_Southampton_FC]

So if we we get to Wembley and face Millwall, do we get to sing "no one likes us and we don't care"?

 

[Number 1 Jasper]

What happens if the "the person" who looked like a southampton analyst from a photo from the Internet, was just a random guy and this is all an elaborate fabrication to give Borough an advantage?

And someone wakes up in the shower and it’s all been a dream ?

 

[Number 1 Jasper]

So if Gary is Billy, who is Spartacus?

I am , and so’s my Wife .

 

[Ian Thumwood]

What really annoys me as the spying was not necessary. We could gave beaten Boro without resorting to this. This has now jeopardised our season and could have serious repercussions.

It also upsets me that we cheated which goes against what sport should be about. I am disapointed that we have been so stupid The club have let the fans down.

 

[Toss saints]

I'm puzzled at the reaction on here.

My thoughts on the practice aside the punishment will be proportionate to the crime surely? And then only applied once actual guilt is apportioned (ie the investigation is fully concluded).

Any club statement in the interim will be done in a manner that doesn't imply anything and just states full cooperation into the investigation (as they have done). Anything else at the moment will just be media noise to make a drama out of it.

You get a points deduction for incorrectly declaring the clubs financial documentation to the relevant people or running the club so badly that it goes into administration - you're not going to get one for person standing on a hill watching one training session (which according to the rule as written wouldn't have been an issue a few hours earlier).

Should it go on? No. Does it go on, probably.

If guilty I'd expect a bigger fine than Leeds got and then, I hope, a later adjustment of the rules to show they are trying the cut out the practice by making it illegal fully (no time window on it) and a upfront declaration of the penalty that is of a size that it makes it less appealing to do it on the sly on the off chance you get caught.

As for the "honest" club persona - I am fully convinced that Saints (like every other club in the country) does what all the other clubs are doing until they get told otherwise.

Crikey - a measured viewpoint.! These seem a bit rare these days

 

[Libby]

What really annoys me as the spying was not necessary. We could gave beaten Boro without resorting to this. This has now jeopardised our season and could have serious repercussions.

It also upsets me that we cheated which goes against what sport should be about. I am disapointed that we have been so stupid The club have let the fans down.

I don't think it's jeapordised our season?

 

[SteveO 74]

The charge is breaking the Good Faith Requirement to another team. The rules state that charges can vary from Fines, point deduction and transfer embargoes.

So cancelling the game on Tuesday would be very very unlikely as would a point deduction this season as the first leg of the play off has now been completed.

People go on about Gibson at Boro suing the club or EFL, but don’t forget we have an extremely wealthy owner who I’m sure won’t just sit back and bend over for Gibson?

Think we’ll get a massive fine, with a possible suspended points deduction, but the EFL need to make a ruling quickly. For Gibson to,take it further should we win on Tuesday would be tough just as it was when clubs were trying to push through Leicesters points deduction a couple of years ago etc. Now there’s a case of serious cheating for 46 games plus.

 

[metalmonkey80]

Playing devil's advocate a points deduction is probably the only penalty which will make it less appealing.

Proportionate is also down to perspective as well. Personally I'd argue that we did is worse than what WBA did.

For what it's worth I don't think they will deduct points, though equally I'm not arsed if they did.

I agree a points deductions would make it less appealing to do it - but it then needs the threshold for when a fine becomes points deducted and how many points are attributed to what level of infraction to be set out and at the moment that is a bit "licks finger and puts in the air" territory.

For example you can't give 3 points deduction for filming 1 random training session and then say 6 for deliberately falsifying the clubs annual accounts to cover overspend on players that won enough games to get promoted.

I don't like the fact the "spying" is being being done but until there is a rule banning it outright and a clear cut penalty for infringement that is a deterrent it's going to continue. Like in every super competitive environment teams / individuals will break the rules as far as they can get away with.

There is so much available data on every club now in terms of prior match videos that there is practically zero need for it - what is looking at 1 training session going to show you that 10 matches where your next opponent is playing against a similar team identity to yours is not going to show?

 

[metalmonkey80]

Crikey - a measured viewpoint.! These seem a bit rare these days

I must be getting old and less excitable.

 

[Libby]

I agree a points deductions would make it less appealing to do it - but it then needs the threshold for when a fine becomes points deducted and how many points are attributed to what level of infraction to be set out and at the moment that is a bit "licks finger and puts in the air" territory.

For example you can't give 3 points deduction for filming 1 random training session and then say 6 for deliberately falsifying the clubs annual accounts to cover overspend on players that won enough games to get promoted.

I don't like the fact the "spying" is being being done but until there is a rule banning it outright and a clear cut penalty for infringement that is a deterrent it's going to continue. Like in every super competitive environment teams / individuals will break the rules as far as they can get away with.

There is so much available data on every club now in terms of prior match videos that there is practically zero need for it - what is looking at 1 training session going to show you that 10 matches where your next opponent is playing against a similar team identity to yours is going to show?

As with lots of regulations in the game the big problem is that they've decided to not define a punishment at the point of implementing the rule. This means that anything is possible (in theory at least, not in reality) and leads to rampant speculation and clubs making demands.

 

[All_Southampton_FC]

The charge is breaking the Good Faith Requirement to another team. The rules state that charges can vary from Fines, point deduction and transfer embargoes.

So cancelling the game on Tuesday would be very very unlikely as would a point deduction this season as the first leg of the play off has now been completed.

People go on about Gibson at Boro suing the club or EFL, but don’t forget we have an extremely wealthy owner who I’m sure won’t just sit back and bend over for Gibson?

Think we’ll get a massive fine, with a possible suspended points deduction, but the EFL need to make a ruling quickly. For Gibson to,take it further should we win on Tuesday would be tough just as it was when clubs were trying to push through Leicesters points deduction a couple of years ago etc. Now there’s a case of serious cheating for 46 games plus.

Thanks, very informative. If it is a points deduction, and we get promoted can that be transferred to the Premier League?

 

[SteveO 74]

Thanks, very informative. If it is a points deduction, and we get promoted can that be transferred to the Premier League?

Wouldn’t think so as a different competition/ league?

 

[Libby]

The charge is breaking the Good Faith Requirement to another team. The rules state that charges can vary from Fines, point deduction and transfer embargoes.

So cancelling the game on Tuesday would be very very unlikely as would a point deduction this season as the first leg of the play off has now been completed.

People go on about Gibson at Boro suing the club or EFL, but don’t forget we have an extremely wealthy owner who I’m sure won’t just sit back and bend over for Gibson?

Think we’ll get a massive fine, with a possible suspended points deduction, but the EFL need to make a ruling quickly. For Gibson to,take it further should we win on Tuesday would be tough just as it was when clubs were trying to push through Leicesters points deduction a couple of years ago etc. Now there’s a case of serious cheating for 46 games plus.

There's two charges isn't there? One of them has an element of precedent with the Leeds situation, the other doesn't.

 

[Le Tissier's Laces]

There's two charges isn't there? One of them has an element of precedent with the Leeds situation, the other doesn't.

Yep. First one is ‘good faith’ clause, second one is filming/watching training within 72 hours of a game.

 

[SteveO 74]

There's two charges isn't there? One of them has an element of precedent with the Leeds situation, the other doesn't.

The Good Faith Requirement Law was written after the Leeds episode.