HOW LONG DO WE GIVE HIM ?

[NorthCityCanary]

Neither Potter or Southgate would entertain being NCFC manager.

Southgate, sure, though I never expect him to be manger here.

Potter on the other hand, might. He's damaged goods from Chelsea and the Hammers, none of the top EPL teams would realistically take him, those bottom half would see it as a gamble. He works best with cheap, young players and has (at least at Brighton, had) a defined style, of which we're crying out for.

 

[carrabuh]

Don't know, considerable amount owed to Attanasio's and one of Pinkun podcasts recall them saying not selling Sargent put them close to ffp limit.

What’s the debt figure carrabuh?

I think its around 60 million to directors in loans and another 25 elsewhere

 

[carrabuh]

Why would anyone want Gareth Southgate as manager?

There is a reason nobody has gone after him.

Why would anyone want an English manager full stop?

I'd begrudgingly keep Manning as it could all go south very badly with a change.

My worry is this team doesnt realise its bad yet and when the penny drops it things could get far worse.

 

[Robbie BB]

............. I think its around 60 million to directors in loans and another 25 elsewhere

Are we talking about the Attanasio loans made under the previous ownership? If so, my understanding is that they were all converted into equity as part of the take-over from DS and MWJ. Hence those loans no longer exist. Where there is a continuing cost is in the interest payable on the various classes of Preference shares. There may be new loans related to player purchases since Norfolk Holdings took control, but I guess we have to wait until the AGM in November before we get any further info on that.

 

[Canary Rob]

Why would anyone want Gareth Southgate as manager?

There is a reason nobody has gone after him.

Why would anyone want an English manager full stop?

I'd begrudgingly keep Manning as it could all go south very badly with a change.

My worry is this team doesnt realise its bad yet and when the penny drops it things could get far worse.

It can only go about three places south… we are virtually at the place of only looking up already

 

[Canary Rob]

Are we talking about the Attanasio loans made under the previous ownership? If so, my understanding is that they were all converted into equity as part of the take-over from DS and MWJ. Hence those loans no longer exist. Where there is a continuing cost is in the interest payable on the various classes of Preference shares. There may be new loans related to player purchases since Norfolk Holdings took control, but I guess we have to wait until the AGM in November before we get any further info on that.

In the 2024 accounts there is £22m loan falling due in more than a year. Dividends in the preference shares was less than £1m

Doesn’t sound too worrying to me. But it does show we don’t really have any wiggle room for player purchases etc

 

[carrabuh]

It can only go about three places south… we are virtually at the place of only looking up already

No way would i want Southgate in charge of this team. We'd have more points than fans by end of season.

He's so dreadfully English in his outlook.

Pragmatism breeds mediocrity.

 

[Canary Rob]

No way would i want Southgate in charge of this team. We'd have more points than fans by end of season.

He's so dreadfully English in his outlook.

Pragmatism breeds mediocrity.

Oh sorry if the alternative is Southgate (which frankly I don’t think it is as Southgate wouldn’t entertain joining us), then yes I agree. There are other options though.

 

[Robbie BB]

In the 2024 accounts there is £22m loan falling due in more than a year. Dividends in the preference shares was less than £1m. Doesn’t sound too worrying to me. But it does show we don’t really have any wiggle room for player purchases etc

Yes, the finances are the least of the worries. Nor do I think FFP rules are of particular concern; all the financial strategising is done with those in mind. What I would like to know more about is exactly how player purchases are being financed.*

[Edit]
* e.g. this from p 73 of the last Finacial Report, re. Creditors/Short Term loans: "accelerated funds secured on future contracted player receivables and fully repayable by September 2025. The interest rate due on the loan varies on a player-by-player basis".

 

[Bure budgie]

No news or anything coming out of Carrow Rd.
Obviously nothing happening regarding a new manager.
Not surprising really. With a 4 year contract to pay off, they've not much alternative.

 

[carrabuh]

Knapper would be stupid to fire him.

He'd essentially be firing himself as I doubt they'd entrust him with another hire.

 

[Hairy Mary Quite Canary]

The frustration for me is how badly we've managed the Sporting Director model. The big advantage of this set up is continuity. One Head Coach leaves but the strategy, vision and "how we play", remains the same. It's not the total upheaval of losing an old-school Manager. Our SD's, both Knapper and Webber (post-Farke) seem to have a scattergun approach to appointing Head Coaches that neither helps existing players with continuity nor recruitment planning. It's no wonder our players look like they've just been introduced to one another most of the time. Our SD's needed the balls to stick to the master plan.

 

[zogean_king]

The frustration for me is how badly we've managed the Sporting Director model. The big advantage of this set up is continuity. One Head Coach leaves but the strategy, vision and "how we play", remains the same. It's not the total upheaval of losing an old-school Manager. Our SD's, both Knapper and Webber (post-Farke) seem to have a scattergun approach to appointing Head Coaches that neither helps existing players with continuity nor recruitment planning. It's no wonder our players look like they've just been introduced to one another most of the time. Our SD's needed the balls to stick to the master plan.

For me it has almost become like Australian political system or the devolution of power to the regions in the UK where you effectively just get another level of management and very little benefit. I agree that we haven't taken advantage of the fact that we have a vision and we slowly work towards it. I think Webber genuinely got it with the infinite game, especially at the beginning of his tenure we have rather lost our way and need to reassess how and what we are doing

 

[Golden Eadie 2]

The players recruited in summer '24 were with JHT 's managership in mind. We sack him and hire a manager with a totally different approach, meaning last year's players are no longer fit for purpose. OK, this is a simplistic analogy but basically is true. Sack Knapper and Manning and where does that get us? I saw it suggested somewhere that we should hire Paul Lambert as SD, but can't see that working.

 

[1950canary]

The players recruited in summer '24 were with JHT 's managership in mind. We sack him and hire a manager with a totally different approach, meaning last year's players are no longer fit for purpose. OK, this is a simplistic analogy but basically is true. Sack Knapper and Manning and where does that get us? I saw it suggested somewhere that we should hire Paul Lambert as SD, but can't see that working.

The reason I suggested Paul Lambert was quite simple - future continuity. The ' how we play ' philosophy Of Lambert would be a fully fit squad of flexible players and he would want a Head Coach in that mould and on top of that with his knowledge and contacts he could find players to suit that mould. Knapper hasn't done that and we have flipped from one style to another in accordance with the views of the Head Coaches he has appointed.

 

[Robbie BB]

Yesterday's Pink'Un featured a "fan debate" headlined "Who's to blame for Norwich City's struggles?", the heat swiftly becoming largely focussed on Knapper and recruitment.

 

[SuffolkCanary]

Yesterday's Pink'Un featured a "fan debate" headlined "Who's to blame for Norwich City's struggles?", the heat swiftly becoming largely focussed on Knapper and recruitment.

I'd agree that he probably has got the balance wrong in terms of having too many inexperienced players, young and or foreign. However with time these players can develop and improve to make the team much better (hopefully). To do that though we have to go through this initial painful period. The squad has seen a massive overhaul in the last 3 windows - only Fisher, Stacey, Duffy, Mclean and Sargent remain from the previous regime.

I'd personally much rather see these new raft of players develop and make mistakes along the way than the likes of Barnes, Hernandez, Fassnacht, Forshaw, Hayden, Hanley, Gibson and Batth

 

[RiverEndRick]

That 'fans debate' included one comment each from 5 fans. That's a pretty meager sampling of the total fan base. How were those 5 chosen? As for Knapper and the recruitment issue, IMO there are some questions about last year's recruitment to be sure. Crnac seems to have reached a plateau in his development, Forson has been in and out because of injury, Córdoba started well then fell away before making a comeback in recent games but now is injured. Marcondes was a good signing on a free transfer and Wright had an immediate impact last season but his suspension has limited his start to this season. Schwartau was only 18 when he arrived but he does seem to be making progress now and his first goal may well boost that. Mahovo, also 18, was excellent last season and hopefully will kick on now that he's returning from injury and Crisene will also need to make a new start after his injury.

Manning has had to cope with a raft of injuries this season and the loss of Kvistgaarden and Diallo, Knapper's biggest signings, has seriously compromised our attack since they have been injured and their return could make a big difference to our attack in upcoming games as could more involvement from Makama. I agree with Suffolk that Knapper overdid the recruitment of young players last season, but he's done a lot to balance that this season.

 

[SuffolkCanary]

That 'fans debate' included one comment each from 5 fans. That's a pretty meager sampling of the total fan base. How were those 5 chosen? As for Knapper and the recruitment issue, IMO there are some questions about last year's recruitment to be sure. Crnac seems to have reached a plateau in his development, Forson has been in and out because of injury, Córdoba started well then fell away before making a comeback in recent games but now is injured. Marcondes was a good signing on a free transfer and Wright had an immediate impact last season but his suspension has limited his start to this season. Schwartau was only 18 when he arrived but he does seem to be making progress now and his first goal may well boost that. Mahovo, also 18, was excellent last season and hopefully will kick on now that he's returning from injury and Crisene will also need to make a new start after his injury.

Manning has had to cope with a raft of injuries this season and the loss of Kvistgaarden and Diallo, Knapper's biggest signings, has seriously compromised our attack since they have been injured and their return could make a big difference to our attack in upcoming games as could more involvement from Makama. I agree with Suffolk that Knapper overdid the recruitment of young players last season, but he's done a lot to balance that this season.

He has done a lot to balance the age profile I believe but not English league experience, that has shown in performance levels. Darling has been able to hit the ground running, Makama has also benefitted from this I believe. Others such as Medic, Topic, Kovacevic, Mattsson, Jurasek, Diallo and Kvistgaarden have seen their performances fluctuate with little consistency which they are trying to settle in to a new country and league.

 

[DHCanary]

https://www.pinkun.com/sport/norwich-city/25541011.norwich-ben-lee-tactical-analysis-thorup-manning/

Really frustrating read on the trends in data moving from JHT to Manning. Man management may have been a problem for JHT which led to his dismissal, but the data presented shows that in possession we were doing good things, and poor goalkeeping was a real issue.

Looking at it, you'd have to say giving JHT Kovacevic and Darling to work with would have given us a much stronger look than whatever Manning is trying to do.