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YorkieLancsHampyLondoner said:
I don't agree with much of this. I think we have been found wanting psychologically - they have been so clearly second best in so many games - and the only reason we have gone close in so many games is because for large chunks of games we park the bus and our forwards have performed exceptionally to be able to create and take chances from so little.

Here's why I think we are going to be relegated and it doesn't have much to do with the strength of our playing squad:

a) they have been a team of strangers,
b) the team chopped and changed constantly, exacerbating point a),
c) we have given the opposition too much respect and been content to be pegged back,
d) the substitutions have consistently been too late on in games, which is why we've let so many leads slip and come out the wrong side of a tight result,
e) Davis keeps gifting goals from a lack of concentration and hasn't offered much going forward but somehow retains his place
f) the goalkeeping situation has ultimately cost us our place in the league. If we had had Palmer or Walton in goal and all else was equal we'd be over 30 points now and in the mix for survival.
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Not discounting any of that - or the wider factors which we've mentioned on here and over the course of the season. But I genuinely believe we need more physicality in games. Not saying it's the biggest or the only factor, but a general lack of quality and fitness for key players has been crucial for our struggles this season. If we had expanded our business to the wider football world, and not limited our spending to the Championship, could we have made a better attempt of staying up this season?

The 'team of strangers' remark is a little odd (not that I overly disagree with it) because we got more points in the first half of the season compared to the second. We were playing well at home, despite drawing games we arguably deserved to win. And that's even with a lot of the newer signings typically making up the majority of the starting eleven. It's probably more the psychological factor for the second half of the season - where sustained defeats and 'almost, but not quite' performances have chipped away at players' morale and confidence.

The chopping and changing of the starting eleven has been frustrating. I would argue injuries have played a part in that - we were top three in the table for combined days missed to injury a couple of months ago. Going without the likes of Tuanzebe, Szmodics, and Hirst - in particular - for prolonged periods didn't help. McKenna's late substitutions have been a bug bear of mine too this season. I like to think he'd have learned a lot from this season and hopefully next season can build a style of play and bring in a few players who he'll have more confidence in trusting if we do go back up.
 
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I agree with you both on the challenges we've faced, where I would probably disagree slightly is Nuggets you highlighted our defence as needing to improve physically, I think on the whole except Davis our defence has stood up physically to things, it's not an area and look at and think it needs improving. Yes the midfield definitely does but I also think that can be a tactical thing, not many teams play with 2 defensive midfielders with pretty much everyone else being attackers, I've thought we should've looked at having a 3 in there, something I pointed to that we should potentially look at last summer. Even in the champ we were often getting overrun, but it was just the risk we took so we could have more attackers on the pitch.

Then I feel the attacking recruitment there's been no clear strategy to me...although I appreciate we've had injuries but we've got quite a few lightweight players in those positions who just get swallowed up. Too many players running into trouble...we've seen so many goals come from overlaps and cut backs under McKenna we've started to see if in the last few games but it's been a big miss.
 
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Lots of valid points made, and I for one was impressed at our response to the woeful Wolves game, which really confirmed our fate. It was a game to be enjoyed.

The whole team played with pride and courage. The sheer joy of being 2 up against Chelski. And the away support was amazing.

There is much to learn from this season, and we can all look forward to another Championship ride.
 
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itfcptc said:
I agree with you both on the challenges we've faced, where I would probably disagree slightly is Nuggets you highlighted our defence as needing to improve physically, I think on the whole except Davis our defence has stood up physically to things, it's not an area and look at and think it needs improving. Yes the midfield definitely does but I also think that can be a tactical thing, not many teams play with 2 defensive midfielders with pretty much everyone else being attackers, I've thought we should've looked at having a 3 in there, something I pointed to that we should potentially look at last summer. Even in the champ we were often getting overrun, but it was just the risk we took so we could have more attackers on the pitch.

Then I feel the attacking recruitment there's been no clear strategy to me...although I appreciate we've had injuries but we've got quite a few lightweight players in those positions who just get swallowed up. Too many players running into trouble...we've seen so many goals come from overlaps and cut backs under McKenna we've started to see if in the last few games but it's been a big miss.
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We now top the table for points dropped from winning positions - 27 in total! For all our gripes and concerns over our attacking performance and link-up play, we've scored important goals and had the points on the board. While the team and McKenna collectively needs to do better to manage games out - such as the wingers tracking back - for me, the defence has to take the brunt of the criticism here.

Maybe physicality was the wrong word. I certainly feel our full-backs get bullied off the ball and outpaced far too frequently. I think our centre backs (O'Shea, Burgess, Greaves, even Woolfenden to an extent) are usually fine heading away aerial threats. But they haven't been good enough defending low crosses or cut backs. It doesn't surprise me we've only had one clean sheet all season.

Take the two Chelsea goals yesterday. The first one Burgess doesn't deal with the header and is out of position. Ball gets played down our left, Burgess goes out to tackle the man on the ball and gestures for Davis to cover. Davis doesn't cover and Burgess gets beaten for pace. Cajuste in no man's land and Morsy let's his man through to put pressure for the own goal. Really basic stuff we didn't get right and that was 18 seconds in the second half! Burgess and Davis should have a better understanding, they've played more than enough games together. Second goal - seems like they're wanting to take the corner quickly but Broadhead ambles over too late (he's on as sub, can't be tired!). Ball then eventually played to Sancho just in the area and while it's a great strike, he's got loads of space because Broadhead's now out of his initial position and Morsy doesn't close Sancho down fast enough. They should've scored from a corner not long after that - somehow Jackson gets a free header three yards out, outjumping both Cajuste and O'Shea but Palmer makes a great stop. Two markers on him and he still gets the best of them!

All too often we get cut apart and bullied off the ball when the opposition has to step it up when they're losing. While we know we lack depth in central midfield in the summer, particularly with the loanees departing, I would like to see us upgrade the defence in the summer.
 
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itfcptc said:
Delap is great but we look so much better as a team going forwards with Hirst in it. He scored a mere 7 goals for us in the championship last season but it's about what else he brings to the game. I don't think I've ever appreciated a striker who doesn't score that much as much.
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Took me a while, but I'm pretty much onboard with this way of thinking. Worth stating that I think both players are great. Delap's got a much higher ceiling, I can easily see him in an England shirt. He can single handedly drive us forward and win set pieces (unfortunately for him and us, we've not been good at set pieces this season). But Delap's big negative is that he's too selfish as a striker. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but in our system it's a bit of a hindrance. He'll usually opt to shoot rather than play a pass and that can kill our attacks.

Hirst's strengths are his passing and build-up play. He had a great first half against Chelsea - playing in Johnson to set up Enciso. Generally keeping moves flowing. I think his best games at this level have been away from home playing against teams that are more open (such as Chelsea yesterday) where he gets a bit more space. Hirst's downside is his finishing. Twice in the second half against Chelsea he arguably should've scored - most notably when he couldn't time his run and messed up a diving header. But if we can get Hirst playing in the likes of Enciso and the wide players - we might score more goals.

Either way, if Delap's £30 million clause is true then teams are obviously going to be interested. I wonder if it's better for the long-term giving Hirst more Premier League starts - as he should be with us next season and he'll be an important player.
 
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Nuggets said:
We now top the table for points dropped from winning positions - 27 in total! For all our gripes and concerns over our attacking performance and link-up play, we've scored important goals and had the points on the board. While the team and McKenna collectively needs to do better to manage games out - such as the wingers tracking back - for me, the defence has to take the brunt of the criticism here.

Maybe physicality was the wrong word. I certainly feel our full-backs get bullied off the ball and outpaced far too frequently. I think our centre backs (O'Shea, Burgess, Greaves, even Woolfenden to an extent) are usually fine heading away aerial threats. But they haven't been good enough defending low crosses or cut backs. It doesn't surprise me we've only had one clean sheet all season.

Take the two Chelsea goals yesterday. The first one Burgess doesn't deal with the header and is out of position. Ball gets played down our left, Burgess goes out to tackle the man on the ball and gestures for Davis to cover. Davis doesn't cover and Burgess gets beaten for pace. Cajuste in no man's land and Morsy let's his man through to put pressure for the own goal. Really basic stuff we didn't get right and that was 18 seconds in the second half! Burgess and Davis should have a better understanding, they've played more than enough games together. Second goal - seems like they're wanting to take the corner quickly but Broadhead ambles over too late (he's on as sub, can't be tired!). Ball then eventually played to Sancho just in the area and while it's a great strike, he's got loads of space because Broadhead's now out of his initial position and Morsy doesn't close Sancho down fast enough. They should've scored from a corner not long after that - somehow Jackson gets a free header three yards out, outjumping both Cajuste and O'Shea but Palmer makes a great stop. Two markers on him and he still gets the best of them!

All too often we get cut apart and bullied off the ball when the opposition has to step it up when they're losing. While we know we lack depth in central midfield in the summer, particularly with the loanees departing, I would like to see us upgrade the defence in the summer.
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It feels like we've been caught in between a rock and a hard place in many ways this season. Remember when McKenna first came, straight away in his first season he made us defensively solid. As time progressed we transition to a possession based style but would often pass for the sake of passing. Then after we signed Luongo, Broadhead and Hirst we became lethal going forwards. We managed to maintain that last season maybe giving up possession more readily but the patterns of play were embedded including off the ball with players all pressing together and covering each other if one was out of position (e.g. Luongo slotting in for Davis). My biggest gripe last season was how we still had far too much coming down our flanks particularly in the RB position. It was obvious given the risks we took last season we needed to try to be more compact this season but because our patterns of play were so well embedded and we had our own style it feels like we've tried to do both and not really pulled either off often looking quite disjointed. Patterns of play not there, not collectively pressing in the same way we previously would, not covering positions. For how good Cajuste is, he still does not cover that LB position like Luongo did. And Luongo used to take so much pressure off Morsy, which allowed him to dictate play...I'm not sure Cajuste does that to the same level and perhaps I'm just reading into it but it makes Morsy looked knackered. Often last season even to an extent some of the games earlier on this season Morsy used to step it up 2nd half and start dictating play the past few months he just doesn't look capable of doing that.

I guess what I'm saying is we don't look as balanced going forwards or defensively as we have done previously. I don't think we've seen too many mistakes from Burgess, O'Shea, Woolfenden and Tuanzebe generally positionally they've all been pretty good and given who they're up against I think have performed pretty well. Davis has looked suspect 1-1, Greaves positionally has been half a yard off too often but for me the biggest areas are we've been sliced through the midfield too easily because we're generally being overrun or our attackers haven't tracked back well enough or pressed collectively well enough. It feels a little like we need to find our way of playing again next season.
 
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Nuggets said:
Took me a while, but I'm pretty much onboard with this way of thinking. Worth stating that I think both players are great. Delap's got a much higher ceiling, I can easily see him in an England shirt. He can single handedly drive us forward and win set pieces (unfortunately for him and us, we've not been good at set pieces this season). But Delap's big negative is that he's too selfish as a striker. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but in our system it's a bit of a hindrance. He'll usually opt to shoot rather than play a pass and that can kill our attacks.

Hirst's strengths are his passing and build-up play. He had a great first half against Chelsea - playing in Johnson to set up Enciso. Generally keeping moves flowing. I think his best games at this level have been away from home playing against teams that are more open (such as Chelsea yesterday) where he gets a bit more space. Hirst's downside is his finishing. Twice in the second half against Chelsea he arguably should've scored - most notably when he couldn't time his run and messed up a diving header. But if we can get Hirst playing in the likes of Enciso and the wide players - we might score more goals.

Either way, if Delap's £30 million clause is true then teams are obviously going to be interested. I wonder if it's better for the long-term giving Hirst more Premier League starts - as he should be with us next season and he'll be an important player.
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On the ball, Delap is a PL star in waiting. His finishing, his touch, his dribbling are top level. Hirst has nowhere near as good first touch, or as good a finisher but off the ball he is a far better player, positionally he is superb, his movement is excellent and is great at pressing. If you combined those traits with Delap you'd probably have the perfect striker.

As someone who grew up watching teams play with 2 strikers, when that changed and teams started going to 1 out and out striker it took me years to be convinced that was the way to go. Hirst is the first striker I've seen who I think made me see it work, he's the best player I've seen at Ipswich to play that role and as I've said he's the first striker I've seen at Ipswich who I don't really care that he's not a prolific scorer.

I do wonder if we signed another striker whether we could play Hirst and Delap in the same team, with Delap playing slightly behind Hirst. Maybe in that left forward position.
 
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itfcptc said:
On the ball, Delap is a PL star in waiting. His finishing, his touch, his dribbling are top level. Hirst has nowhere near as good first touch, or as good a finisher but off the ball he is a far better player, positionally he is superb, his movement is excellent and is great at pressing. If you combined those traits with Delap you'd probably have the perfect striker.

As someone who grew up watching teams play with 2 strikers, when that changed and teams started going to 1 out and out striker it took me years to be convinced that was the way to go. Hirst is the first striker I've seen who I think made me see it work, he's the best player I've seen at Ipswich to play that role and as I've said he's the first striker I've seen at Ipswich who I don't really care that he's not a prolific scorer.

I do wonder if we signed another striker whether we could play Hirst and Delap in the same team, with Delap playing slightly behind Hirst. Maybe in that left forward position.
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I agree ptc, Hirst & Delap would be a lethal combo up front. Their strengths complimenting each other. Wonder why KM and coaches havent given it a try.
 
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Evesham said:
We also have Sam szmodics to come back from long term injury.

He has a good record in the championship.
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He only has one good season in the championship next to his name and will be 30 in September, how much did you pay for him was it £6m with additions that could take it to £11m, if so I bet none of the additions are triggered.

He clearly isn't good enough for the PL and is probably on a downward trend, do you keep him and hope his goals continue like they did at Blackburn or do you concentrate on someone who would be good enough the following season for the PL

Of all your signings he was amongst the ones who surprised me the most, at £6m no other PL team wanted to take a gamble on him, that sounds alarm bells
 
ristac said:
He only has one good season in the championship next to his name and will be 30 in September, how much did you pay for him was it £6m with additions that could take it to £11m, if so I bet none of the additions are triggered.

He clearly isn't good enough for the PL and is probably on a downward trend, do you keep him and hope his goals continue like they did at Blackburn or do you concentrate on someone who would be good enough the following season for the PL

Of all your signings he was amongst the ones who surprised me the most, at £6m no other PL team wanted to take a gamble on him, that sounds alarm bells
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It's an interesting one, because I did expect more from him this season. He's a good presser and has popped up with some goals this season, but I thought he'd lead the line more effectively.

Strangely, I do think we have missed him up top. He's missed 9 or 10 odd games this season through injury, and somehow he's still our second highest goalscorer in the league.
 
His press has been great but also unfortunately I don't think we've got the best out of him in the position he's played. He's not a winger and not a great dribbler of the ball, sometimes he'd get to the byline and just didn't have the quality. I think he's played slightly better when Hirst has been on the pitch, because Hirst has created the spaces which Szmodics likes to run into. For me he should've really been playing centrally.
 
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ristac said:
He only has one good season in the championship next to his name and will be 30 in September, how much did you pay for him was it £6m with additions that could take it to £11m, if so I bet none of the additions are triggered.

He clearly isn't good enough for the PL and is probably on a downward trend, do you keep him and hope his goals continue like they did at Blackburn or do you concentrate on someone who would be good enough the following season for the PL

Of all your signings he was amongst the ones who surprised me the most, at £6m no other PL team wanted to take a gamble on him, that sounds alarm bells
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That got the bite, but not quite from where I expected <whistle>
 
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On a side note, I know Spanish has gone, but not seen anything from fieldmarshall or San Diego lately!
 
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