Off Topic What is a woke thing?

[Drew]

Not in Hull at the time. I only knew two black lads when I left school in 1970 and I worked alongside them. I didn't even realise they were black until I attended their weddings and met their parents and families. We were just working class kids getting along as best we could. I also worked in a local foundry when I was 18 for a few years and no-one knew who was black or white until we came out of the showers at the end of the shift. I knew plenty of white lads who couldn't get a job because they didn't want one, and still don't.

It doesn't just have to include skin colour though.

I can only speak from my own experience - but if I was growing up at the same time as you - it would have only just been made legal for me to have a relationship with someone of the gender I am attracted to and it was still far from socially acceptable. Gay people were faced with the choice of living a lie, living a solo life or not being public about their relationships.

Even in my life time - growing up under section 28 - my school experience was very different to that of my straight friends. I didn't really have any teenage or early 20s relationships to speak of - for fear of being outed at the time. I grew up in a religious family and my grandparents ultimately never met my future husband - which I am sad about. Even in the mid-90s the culture and AIDS epidemic was hostile to people and so I never felt comfortable being myself.

So yes, in many ways, I do feel as though many of my peers had 'straight privilege'. I don't like the term and would prefer it to be phrased differently - but I am a bit jealous of the life they felt more free to live. But that doesn't mean they didn't encounter their own life troubles at the same time.

I don't think the problem is exclusively on the anti-woke side either. There are people online who have made their whole personality a crusade against the injustices that they perceive people have had. People who only ever talk about skin colour or trans people are part of the problem but they don't quite seem to realise it. Equally, people like JK Rowling have become absolutely obsessed with one argument. All she ever posts about is trans people. Why? The same can be said for some people on the other side of the argument too.

This is what I struggle with when things are boiled down to 'woke v anti-woke', it misses so many stories from different perspectives when things are just boiled down to 'trans people in toilets', 'we need to pay penance for the past' or 'comedy isn't funny any more, you can't say anything!'. Its far far more detailed than that and I think clickbait headlines and whataboutery does the whole conversation a dis-service.

 

[Mckechnie Orange]

I’ve seen some radical feminists frame transgender women in particular as doing the gender equivalent of black face and essentially being an insulting caricature of women and accessing women’s spaces without enduring the tribulations associated with being a woman from birth. Transgender people would then argue they just want to live their life with an identity they can finally feel comfortable with. I can see where both sides are coming from, to be honest. It’s not really as simple as pithy slogans like ‘trans women are women’ or ‘no biological males in women’s spaces’. There’s a lot of nuance to this that makes it more complicated than LGB rights, which is sexuality instead of gender identity.

Thing is, for some folk nuance and compromise is more challenging to comprehend so naturally find it easier to gravitate towards more absolutist extremes.

Happens on both left and right, but the majority who are somewhere towards the middle and believe in common sense are effectively being drowned out by the slagging match from both sides.

And this is being deliberately exploited by media and associated vested interests amplifying the extremes and denying the moderate majority a voice. We're being forced into chosing a side and people are falling for it.

But ultimately, it's just divide and conquer.

 

[balkan tiger]

Priveledge is relative though TT. If you'd been a black kid brought up at those times you can bet your life that their circumstances would have been worse than yours, and when it came to getting a job at 15, you'd likely have found one, the black kid wouldn't. Because he's black.

Those minorities who came after the war were needed and were grateful for the opportunity to make a better life for themselfs and their families. Everyone has the same basic schooling and plenty of people from minority groups have made the most of it, politicians, musicians, TV celebrities, sports, business owners. Of course there was (is) racism it was a form of bullying, and back then everyone got bullied, the tall, the short, the fat, the ginger in fact anyone that was different. Of course it was and is wrong but let's not flip from one extreme to the other and push minorities to the front of the queue just because they are a minority.

 

[DMD]

Those minorities who came after the war were needed and were grateful for the opportunity to make a better life for themselfs and their families. Everyone has the same basic schooling and plenty of people from minority groups have made the most of it, politicians, musicians, TV celebrities, sports, business owners. Of course there was (is) racism it was a form of bullying, and back then everyone got bullied, the tall, the short, the fat, the ginger in fact anyone that was different. Of course it was and is wrong but let's not flip from one extreme to the other and push minorities to the front of the queue just because they are a minority.

Globally, white people are by far a minority compared to other skin tones.

 

[Jezz511]

It doesn't just have to include skin colour though.

I can only speak from my own experience - but if I was growing up at the same time as you - it would have only just been made legal for me to have a relationship with someone of the gender I am attracted to and it was still far from socially acceptable. Gay people were faced with the choice of living a lie, living a solo life or not being public about their relationships.

Even in my life time - growing up under section 28 - my school experience was very different to that of my straight friends. I didn't really have any teenage or early 20s relationships to speak of - for fear of being outed at the time. I grew up in a religious family and my grandparents ultimately never met my future husband - which I am sad about. Even in the mid-90s the culture and AIDS epidemic was hostile to people and so I never felt comfortable being myself.

So yes, in many ways, I do feel as though many of my peers had 'straight privilege'. I don't like the term and would prefer it to be phrased differently - but I am a bit jealous of the life they felt more free to live. But that doesn't mean they didn't encounter their own life troubles at the same time.

I don't think the problem is exclusively on the anti-woke side either. There are people online who have made their whole personality a crusade against the injustices that they perceive people have had. People who only ever talk about skin colour or trans people are part of the problem but they don't quite seem to realise it. Equally, people like JK Rowling have become absolutely obsessed with one argument. All she ever posts about is trans people. Why? The same can be said for some people on the other side of the argument too.

This is what I struggle with when things are boiled down to 'woke v anti-woke', it misses so many stories from different perspectives when things are just boiled down to 'trans people in toilets', 'we need to pay penance for the past' or 'comedy isn't funny any more, you can't say anything!'. Its far far more detailed than that and I think clickbait headlines and whataboutery does the whole conversation a dis-service.

This is life now unfortunately. Sensationalism.

You have to be all the way one way or another and you only get heard of its an eye catching headline.

I was thinking this the other day, how many times we see people lie or embellish to get their truthful point across, or anyone who disagrees with them on a certain topic is suddenly on the very other end of the political or moral spectrum. You can no longer agree to disagree or better yet - not have an opinion and not care to have one.

It's like Prime Ministers Questions. Can't they just talk about what's going on rather than point scoring, trying gotchas and seeing if they can come up with a catchphrase the papers can run with.

 

[Mckechnie Orange]

Globally, white people are by far a minority compared to other skin tones.

And they by far control the majority of the world's wealth, power and resources, so I don't think we can argue that whites are underrepresented in any way. At least at this stage.

 

[Off The Line]

Which confirms that you are not qualified to diagnose or treat mental illness, which along with other parts you snipped, was my comment.

I was going to talk about how he was like a different boy in the previous two sessions having received a diagnosis for Autism and ADD, but then realised I couldn't be bothered to go into it!
As children don't yet have mental illness then I would say I'm not, no! That's even better in terms of outcomes though.

 

[Mckechnie Orange]

This is life now unfortunately. Sensationalism.

You have to be all the way one way or another and you only get heard of its an eye catching headline.

I was thinking this the other day, how many times we see people lie or embellish to get their truthful point across, or anyone who disagrees with them on a certain topic is suddenly on the very other end of the political or moral spectrum. You can no longer agree to disagree or better yet - not have an opinion and not care to have one.

It's like Prime Ministers Questions. Can't they just talk about what's going on rather than point scoring, trying gotchas and seeing if they can come up with a catchphrase the papers can run with.

Ultimately it works though, and that's down to us gullible twats swallowing it up.

 

[balkan tiger]

This is life now unfortunately. Sensationalism.

You have to be all the way one way or another and you only get heard of its an eye catching headline.

I was thinking this the other day, how many times we see people lie or embellish to get their truthful point across, or anyone who disagrees with them on a certain topic is suddenly on the very other end of the political or moral spectrum. You can no longer agree to disagree or better yet - not have an opinion and not care to have one.

It's like Prime Ministers Questions. Can't they just talk about what's going on rather than point scoring, trying gotchas and seeing if they can come up with a catchphrase the papers can run with.

It's a long time ago but I was shocked when I found out that prime ministers questions is all pre arranged. I wondered how did the other side manage to have in mind all the facts, figures and statistics on any given subject. Turns out the questions are submitted days in advance and teams of people who you never see on the telly come up with all the answers, and include some witty gems of humour for the cameras.

 

[Mckechnie Orange]

It's a long time ago but I was shocked when I found out that prime ministers questions is all pre arranged. I wondered how did the other side manage to have in mind all the facts, figures and statistics on any given subject. Turns out the questions are submitted days in advance and teams of people who you never see on the telly come up with all the answers, and include some witty gems of humour for the cameras.

Yeah, it's a political set piece and little more.

 

[Jezz511]

Ultimately it works though, and that's down to is gullible twats swallowing it up.

Yep, unfortunately it's so hard to find any form of alternative source of news, and often it's even worse than mainstream.

Twitter in its early days was unfiltered news in 140 characters. Now it's just pure crap that I shamefully look at 10 times a day.

 

[Jezz511]

It's a long time ago but I was shocked when I found out that prime ministers questions is all pre arranged. I wondered how did the other side manage to have in mind all the facts, figures and statistics on any given subject. Turns out the questions are submitted days in advance and teams of people who you never see on the telly come up with all the answers, and include some witty gems of humour for the cameras.

They need better teams.

But yes it's all a show. Even the speaker in recent years has decided he's the host of a prime time panel show instead of forcing control.

I just wish they'd call it Prime ministers answers because we rarely get a straight discussion on anything.

 

[Asterix]

OK, sou outside of specific no longer love this country due to their comprehension of its past?

I've just been part of an assessment team for the diagnosis of a child with ADD and Autism. I spent the previous year wor

Which makes it even crazier that words like 'woke' are part of the political discourse.

The comprehension of this country's past? And a resultant dislike?
No idea how you arrive at that. I think you are being silly.

 

[Off The Line]

The comprehension of this country's past? And a resultant dislike?
No idea how you arrive at that. I think you are being silly.

I wrote other stuff but deleted it all, or thought I had, because it seemed a bit pointless to respond. My lived experience comment was in reference to a specific situation, and involved another poster.

I wouldn't mean to devalue your lived experience. I mean, you have seen Roy Chubby Brown live. Stuff of dreams.

 

[HCAFCHangout]

Absolutely, quite often people just trying to live their lives get dragged into things that often they don't even agree with.

Pride events in America seem to have become an oversexualised kink fest and a lot of the gay people i know think it's weird as ****

During my uni years (so about 12 years ago) I went to pride events in support of roommates I had who were gay. Plus it was often a good piss up as well. Back then it was fairly good. Yeah you had the odd one in more than revealing but it was just the exception.

It does seem as the boundaries get pushed it allows for the weird ones to squeeze their way in. Then as social media becomes more and more anonymous you have people being brazen with quite controversial views

 

[Mckechnie Orange]

I wrote other stuff but deleted it all, or thought I had, because it seemed a bit pointless to respond. My lived experience comment was in reference to a specific situation, and involved another poster.

I wouldn't mean to devalue your lived experience. I mean, you have seen Roy Chubby Brown live. Stuff of dreams.

I was dragged along to see Chubby Brown once, about 20 years ago for a mates birthday then we were all going out.

Found it about as funny then as I do Mrs Browns boys now, but the only thing I found particularly offensive was the fact I'd paid 20 quid for the ticket.

 

[Obadiah]

You need to explore why your and my age group have been labelled gammons etc I grew up at the same time as you . There is a prevalent derogatory attitude towards us because ‘ we have all the money , are costing the young ones a fortune , we have old fashioned views of the Empire , we are clogging up the NHS and also can afford the houses they want and we say things like ‘ we had to save for what we wanted ‘ I can’t comment on your world but I listen to radio and check out a wide range of news channels and political and economics commentators , I’m not being superior just telling you what I’m interested in .
Just a point but saw a video of a pro Palestine March where the Union Jack was burnt and some middle aged white woman was carrying a stuffed effigy of a baby reflecting what recently happened - I really hope she wasn’t a Palestinian sympathiser if so it was despicable and I know there’s faults on both sides so support neither .

My advice to anyone that thinks I'm privileged is to organise and fight for a better society, one like my grandparents and paraents fought for. One were people on average wages could afford to buy a home or live in a council house or where rents were controlled.

I never liked bullies and the Israeli military machine, financed by the US and the UK governments are bullies.

 

[Asterix]

I wrote other stuff but deleted it all, or thought I had, because it seemed a bit pointless to respond. My lived experience comment was in reference to a specific situation, and involved another poster.

I wouldn't mean to devalue your lived experience. I mean, you have seen Roy Chubby Brown live. Stuff of dreams.

Another assumption on your part. I don't think I have mentioned seeing Chubby live.
Here is one of my favourites, from a mid eighties bootleg cassette tape.
A guy complaining to his mate about his sons non stop habit of hammering nails into anything and everything at home.
He must cost you a fortune?
Not really, I nick the nails from work.

 

[springtiger]

My advice to anyone that thinks I'm privileged is to organise and fight for a better society, one like my grandparents and paraents fought for. One were people on average wages could afford to buy a home or live in a council house or where rents were controlled.

I never liked bullies and the Israeli military machine, financed by the US and the UK governments are bullies.

I totally agree with your first paragraph it is social awareness and certainly where I come from .
As for the last para , it’s not as simple as that and it’s not one sided , the reason the US does what it does to support Israel is that there is a very rich prominent Jewish lobby in the US . Like Russia the Jews have a relatively recent history of bloody persecution , in Russias case by Stalin . This is why these two countries do not bow to anyone . It’s very much in the Russian psyche to not be cowed to anyone after what the Nazi invasion did also The Russian Bear is never afraid and due to the Cold War paranoid about the West like the USA is of them.
If you are the only non Arab / Muslim country in a large region and very small , you tend to not let even a small crack show in your existence . I have no time for Hamas neither am I sympathetic to Israel , why the fight over some pretty barren bit of land goes on is to me stupid , it’s history that both cling to , like in the Balkans.

 

[balkan tiger]

I totally agree with your first paragraph it is social awareness and certainly where I come from .
As for the last para , it’s not as simple as that and it’s not one sided , the reason the US does what it does to support Israel is that there is a very rich prominent Jewish lobby in the US . Like Russia the Jews have a relatively recent history of bloody persecution , in Russias case by Stalin . This is why these two countries do not bow to anyone . It’s very much in the Russian psyche to not be cowed to anyone after what the Nazi invasion did also The Russian Bear is never afraid and due to the Cold War paranoid about the West like the USA is of them.
If you are the only non Arab / Muslim country in a large region and very small , you tend to not let even a small crack show in your existence . I have no time for Hamas neither am I sympathetic to Israel , why the fight over some pretty barren bit of land goes on is to me stupid , it’s history that both cling to , like in the Balkans.

Keep me out of this.
It is rather odd how and why some countries get involved in conflicts in other countries and yet appear to have no understanding of the history.