Off Topic Politics Thread

[Osvaldorama]

Yeah, but **** the low paid waiters and waitresses who serve you, the mechanics who repair your car, the people who deliver your food, the agricultural workers who grow what you eat, the millions of low-paid people who keep your country running, the people laid off a month before they were diagnosed with cancer. I guess they all made bad choices. But don't worry, you're alright, Jack. You made good choices.

You write this with sarcasm, but quite clearly it’s true.

Healthcare costs money which is why it’s important to work hard, save and invest. And buy the necessary insurances. Absolutely nothing stopping your imaginary lower paid people from being a success in America.

Easiest country to be successful in, in human history. If you can’t even afford the basics there, you would fail in any other society in human history.

Why should successful people constantly bail out people that make awful decisions?

 

[Osvaldorama]

You're right, of course. Being Rupert Lowe makes him wrong, on this and every other topic.

What an absurd comment.

He’s doing a fantastic job of actually holding the government to account so far. The only MP to have done so in ages.

 

[thereisonlyoneno7]

You write this with sarcasm, but quite clearly it’s true.

Healthcare costs money which is why it’s important to work hard, save and invest. And buy the necessary insurances. Absolutely nothing stopping your imaginary lower paid people from being a success in America.

Easiest country to be successful in, in human history. If you can’t even afford the basics there, you would fail in any other society in human history.

Why should successful people constantly bail out people that make awful decisions?

Os there is so much wrong in this that I won't even bother to try to break it down.

Oh and it isn't being a lefty or a righty finding it all wrong, it is being a decent human being.

 

[StJabbo1]

You write this with sarcasm, but quite clearly it’s true.

Healthcare costs money which is why it’s important to work hard, save and invest. And buy the necessary insurances. Absolutely nothing stopping your imaginary lower paid people from being a success in America.

Easiest country to be successful in, in human history. If you can’t even afford the basics there, you would fail in any other society in human history.

Why should successful people constantly bail out people that make awful decisions?

These imaginary lower paid people.
"Nearly a third of the workforce (31.9 percent) is earning less than $15 an hour: roughly 52 million workers and their families are struggling to get by on wages of declining value."
https://www.oxfamamerica.org/explore/research-publications/the-crisis-of-low-wages-in-the-us/

 

[Osvaldorama]

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This is absolutely despicable btw

 

[saintrichie123]

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This is absolutely despicable btw

Even the Tories knows this is bolloxs.


Elon Musk's attack on the government's handling of grooming gangs is "misjudged and certainly misinformed", Health Secretary Wes Streeting has said.

Tech multi-billionaire Musk has posted a series of messages on his social media site X, accusing Sir Keir Starmer of failing to prosecute gangs that systematically groomed and raped young girls, and calling for safeguarding minister Jess Phillips to be jailed.

Asked about his comments, Streeting said "this government takes the issue of child sexual exploitation incredibly seriously".

He invited Musk to "roll up his sleeves and work with us" against rape gangs.

The Tories have also criticised Musk for "sharing things that are factually inaccurate"

 

[StJabbo1]

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This is absolutely despicable btw

Even the Tories knows this is bolloxs.


Elon Musk's attack on the government's handling of grooming gangs is "misjudged and certainly misinformed", Health Secretary Wes Streeting has said.

Tech multi-billionaire Musk has posted a series of messages on his social media site X, accusing Sir Keir Starmer of failing to prosecute gangs that systematically groomed and raped young girls, and calling for safeguarding minister Jess Phillips to be jailed.

Asked about his comments, Streeting said "this government takes the issue of child sexual exploitation incredibly seriously".

He invited Musk to "roll up his sleeves and work with us" against rape gangs.

The Tories have also criticised Musk for "sharing things that are factually inaccurate"

Some clarity not hysterical ranting by Musk and his followers needed. This has been raked over time after time in attempts to smear Starmer. As there isn't enough to be done Musk's attacks on UK sovereignty have to be dealt with, Farage, Lowe and the reformers his fifth column. Traitors.
"The safeguarding minister, Jess Phillips, previously said in a letter to Oldham council that instead of the government leading an investigation, Oldham must follow in the footsteps of other towns such as Rotherham and Telford and commission its own inquiry into the historical abuse of children.
A national inquiry by Prof Alexis Jay concluded in 2022, and investigations into Greater Manchester police’s handling of child sexual abuse cases in Manchester, Oldham and Rochdale have also been carried out."

 

[ChilcoSaint]

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This is absolutely despicable btw

And completely untrue. There have already been several inquiries into grooming gangs, and many arrests. This is just another piece of propaganda you have completely swallowed in your utter ignorance.

 

[saintrichie123]

And completely untrue. There have already been several inquiries into grooming gangs, and many arrests. This is just another piece of propaganda you have completely swallowed in your utter ignorance.

But he continues to peddle this nonsense……bonkers.

 

[thereisonlyoneno7]

But he continues to peddle this nonsense……bonkers.

Yep this is when this thread resembles the crap you see on twatter etc with hysterical, angry, thick people spouting ****.


Edit: not calling anyone thick, just saying that those that spout **** on twatter are.

 

[SotonOldBoy]

Yeah, but **** the low paid waiters and waitresses who serve you, the mechanics who repair your car, the people who deliver your food, the agricultural workers who grow what you eat, the millions of low-paid people who keep your country running, the people laid off a month before they were diagnosed with cancer. I guess they all made bad choices. But don't worry, you're alright, Jack. You made good choices.

So much resentment if that post. Happy New year Jock.

 

[StJabbo1]

So much resentment if that post. Happy New year Jock.

You see resentment SOB many of us see compassion and respect for those less well off than ourselves and the need for a better deal. The inequalities in the US are stark and harsh and well you know it.

 

[thereisonlyoneno7]

I don’t see it as bad choices necessarily.

Just as good luck makes some wealthy, plain old bad luck and circumstances makes others poor. I never take for granted things I have achieved and have as I know that at any moment, circumstances could change and it is all taken away.


Also the reason I don’t judge people by what they have, more by who they are as a person.

 

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This is absolutely despicable btw

It is also a lie. But… facts are not for you!

 

[Osvaldorama]

I don’t see it as bad choices necessarily.

Just as good luck makes some wealthy, plain old bad luck and circumstances makes others poor. I never take for granted things I have achieved and have as I know that at any moment, circumstances could change and it is all taken away.


Also the reason I don’t judge people by what they have, more by who they are as a person.

This is an attitude that leads to more problems though. The bottom quintile of society are the ones that cost us all the money, and cause most of the issues.

So imo anything that can be done to teach people self responsibility and to elevate and help them learn, develop and grow will have a huge positive impact not just on them, but on the whole of society.

This is one of the main problems with socialist ideas. Instead of helping people to grow and develop out of poverty, it actually keeps them in poverty as they feel there is no way out.. so they don’t even look.

In the case of the NHS that was being discussed, people are completely detached from the costs of their medical bills.
They think “the government” pays for it. Well.. the governments only income is from tax payers. So we all pay for it.

 

[SotonOldBoy]

I don’t see it as bad choices necessarily.

Just as good luck makes some wealthy, plain old bad luck and circumstances makes others poor. I never take for granted things I have achieved and have as I know that at any moment, circumstances could change and it is all taken away.


Also the reason I don’t judge people by what they have, more by who they are as a person.

So you don't know me, and I know you. Just a little back ground. I was raised in a council house in Thornhill by a father who was a shipwright at Vosper Thornycroft and a mother who was a hairdresser. I served an apprenticeship as a marine electrician. Got my HNC in Electrical Engineering at Southampton Technical college at nights while working. This whole conversation started with a question around health care and now I am being portrayed as some entitled elitest. Now you know some of my story. I could write a book on the rest of the story. Have a great year, I know I will try, if we can sign a striker who can score goals. Please do not reply to this post, it is pointless.

 

[thereisonlyoneno7]

So you don't know me, and I know you. Just a little back ground. I was raised in a council house in Thornhill by a father who was a shipwright at Vosper Thornycroft and a mother who was a hairdresser. I served an apprenticeship as a marine electrician. Got my HNC in Electrical Engineering at Southampton Technical college at nights while working. This whole conversation started with a question around health care and now I am being portrayed as some entitled elitest. Now you know some of my story. I could write a book on the rest of the story. Have a great year, I know I will try, if we can sign a striker who can score goals. Please do not reply to this post, it is pointless.

I wasn’t actually responding to you to be fair.

 

[thereisonlyoneno7]

This is an attitude that leads to more problems though. The bottom quintile of society are the ones that cost us all the money, and cause most of the issues.

So imo anything that can be done to teach people self responsibility and to elevate and help them learn, develop and grow will have a huge positive impact not just on them, but on the whole of society.

This is one of the main problems with socialist ideas. Instead of helping people to grow and develop out of poverty, it actually keeps them in poverty as they feel there is no way out.. so they don’t even look.

In the case of the NHS that was being discussed, people are completely detached from the costs of their medical bills.
They think “the government” pays for it. Well.. the governments only income is from tax payers. So we all pay for it.

I think you are missing the point.

It isn’t a socialist value to want to help those on poorer incomes. It is being human.

It doesn’t stop them from wanting more and to progress, but rather helps them do it. Raise the standard of living for all.

I have not once said at the expense of those that have more though.

Cut out the waste and the corruption (poor and wealthy) and raise the standard of living for the whole country.

On the subject of “health tourists “ can someone (not necessarily Os) explain this to me? My grandkids only got their UK passport aged 2 and 4 and I know the older one had to visit the doctor before he had one one and had to claim from his US travel insurance.

Edit : Thankfully though he had his mother with him so didn’t need a translator to translate from US English to Proper English

 

[StJabbo1]

I think you are missing the point.

It isn’t a socialist value to want to help those on poorer incomes. It is being human.

It doesn’t stop them from wanting more and to progress, but rather helps them do it. Raise the standard of living for all.

I have not once said at the expense of those that have more though.

Cut out the waste and the corruption (poor and wealthy) and raise the standard of living for the whole country.

On the subject of “health tourists “ can someone (not necessarily Os) explain this to me? My grandkids only got their UK passport aged 2 and 4 and I know the older one had to visit the doctor before he had one one and had to claim from his US travel insurance.

Edit : Thankfully though he had his mother with him so didn’t need a translator to translate from US English to Proper English

Hope this helps, extracts from https://keepournhspublic.com/health-tourism-fact-vs-fiction/
"FICTION: “Health Tourism” is a problem for the NHS
In September this year Matt Hancock announced an additional £1m funding to expand the team of experts responsible for recovering millions of pounds in costs for treating overseas visitors in the NHS.

Since the law changed in 2015 many people are no longer deemed ‘ordinarily resident’ in the UK and are charged for all NHS care at 150% of cost price except for emergency care. Since 2017 the law has ben tightened further, putting pressure on Trusts to collect money from those deemed as ‘non-resident’.

FACT: Government policy on this has developed as part of their “hostile environment”
Government policy on charging upfront for treatment has rendered 600,000 people, including 120,000 children, ineligible for free NHS care. This has put many lives at risk and caused great hardship.

The policy has been opposed by almost all professional bodies representing doctors and midwives, by the health unions and now by the Labour Party which is committed to scrap the charges.

‘Health tourism’ refers to the idea that people travel deliberately to the UK to seek free treatment for a pre-existing condition.

The Government’s own estimate puts the cost of deliberate misuse of the NHS by overseas visitors at £300m at most – equating to roughly 0.3% of the NHS budget. But the majority of this is attributed to British migrants that live overseas and return to the UK to use the NHS.

The £300m figure includes the use of primary care and A&E services and does not take into account an assessment of the likelihood of the people charged being able to pay the bill.

The (then) Government’s often used refrain “the NHS is a national, not an international, health service” mobilises the myth of ‘health tourism’ to justify a policy that is based on unreliable evidence, causes harm and leads to discrimination."

 

[StJabbo1]

Hope this helps, extracts from https://keepournhspublic.com/health-tourism-fact-vs-fiction/
"FICTION: “Health Tourism” is a problem for the NHS
In September this year Matt Hancock announced an additional £1m funding to expand the team of experts responsible for recovering millions of pounds in costs for treating overseas visitors in the NHS.

Since the law changed in 2015 many people are no longer deemed ‘ordinarily resident’ in the UK and are charged for all NHS care at 150% of cost price except for emergency care. Since 2017 the law has ben tightened further, putting pressure on Trusts to collect money from those deemed as ‘non-resident’.

FACT: Government policy on this has developed as part of their “hostile environment”
Government policy on charging upfront for treatment has rendered 600,000 people, including 120,000 children, ineligible for free NHS care. This has put many lives at risk and caused great hardship.

The policy has been opposed by almost all professional bodies representing doctors and midwives, by the health unions and now by the Labour Party which is committed to scrap the charges.

‘Health tourism’ refers to the idea that people travel deliberately to the UK to seek free treatment for a pre-existing condition.

The Government’s own estimate puts the cost of deliberate misuse of the NHS by overseas visitors at £300m at most – equating to roughly 0.3% of the NHS budget. But the majority of this is attributed to British migrants that live overseas and return to the UK to use the NHS.

The £300m figure includes the use of primary care and A&E services and does not take into account an assessment of the likelihood of the people charged being able to pay the bill.

The (then) Government’s often used refrain “the NHS is a national, not an international, health service” mobilises the myth of ‘health tourism’ to justify a policy that is based on unreliable evidence, causes harm and leads to discrimination."

Have to say much more could be done to make those aren't eligible to free treatment pay.