1. Log in now to remove adverts - no adverts at all to registered members!

Data Within Football

Discussion in 'Sunderland' started by SourPatch2, Nov 20, 2024.

  1. Flash Gordon

    Flash Gordon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2019
    Messages:
    5,636
    Likes Received:
    15,627
    This one would suggest that our last 4 games have been a difficult run. Hopefully we can pick up more points in the next 4 with all of those teams in the middle pack.
     
    #61
    clockstander and SourPatch2 like this.
  2. Southern A

    Southern A Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2020
    Messages:
    17,831
    Likes Received:
    45,916
    that Rak Sakyi fella would have been good!
     
    #62
    OLAITAN, Flash Gordon and SourPatch2 like this.
  3. SourPatch2

    SourPatch2 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2024
    Messages:
    7,492
    Likes Received:
    19,977
    I feel quite harsh because I honestly really like Paddy but he's not been good enough for the last 2 seasons now. As you said in the other thread, it would be fine if we had adequate backup but Poveda is about as fit as me.
     
    #63
    clockstander, Scout73 and Southern A like this.
  4. Daz

    Daz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2019
    Messages:
    4,642
    Likes Received:
    12,373
    Data analytics had a massive place in football however high XG goes out the window if the team or player in question couldn't hit a barn door :emoticon-0102-bigsm
     
    #64
  5. SourPatch2

    SourPatch2 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2024
    Messages:
    7,492
    Likes Received:
    19,977
    These are both from @Louorns on twitter, he posts a lot of interesting data and a lot of it is on shot placement/finishing.

    First graph looks at how many open play shots Championship strikers take and how many of them are aimed into the corner of the goal. Top right is best here and Isidor is right there.
    IMG_4715.jpeg

    Second graph looks purely at shot placement, looking at the percentage of shots aimed in the corner vs the percentage of shots aimed centrally. This time bottom right is best and again Isidor is right there.
    IMG_4716.jpeg

    The service into Isidor recently has been very poor, get him the ball in the box and he will score plenty. Would like more from him in terms of holding the ball up and linking play but you can't argue with his finishing ability.
     
    #65
    clockstander, LD19SAFC and Robertson like this.
  6. SourPatch2

    SourPatch2 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2024
    Messages:
    7,492
    Likes Received:
    19,977
    Which is it then. On one thread posting about data ruins people's enjoyment of football, on another its a good idea? Make your mind up.
     
    #66
  7. Smug in Boots

    Smug in Boots Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2011
    Messages:
    64,846
    Likes Received:
    150,498
    It's both, I have made my mind up.

    No need to get touchy about it, I thought I'd explained my thoughts without being personal.

    I'm just as entitled to an opinion as anyone else and I respect their right to one ...

    ... you're the one saying people have got it all wrong.
     
    #67
  8. SourPatch2

    SourPatch2 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2024
    Messages:
    7,492
    Likes Received:
    19,977
    You did get personal.

    People have got it wrong, they are complaining about a metric while misusing it and when doing so demeaning other peoples interests and lines of work. Am I meant to just stay quiet?
     
    #68
  9. Smug in Boots

    Smug in Boots Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2011
    Messages:
    64,846
    Likes Received:
    150,498
    Where was that?

    Some posters were replying by saying 'XG is a load of shyte' whereas I gave what I thought was a reasonable and logical opinion.

    Why single me out?

    It seems everyone demands their right to an opinion but some get all upset when I give mine.

    Did I ever say you should keep quiet?

    You were the one telling people they're wrong. If you can't see someone's honest opinion, without becoming hysterical, saying you'll stop posting and that it's ruining people's enjoyment, perhaps it says more about you than it does about me.

    Stats are just stats, football is football imo. Stats may be a bit of fun and interesting but I don't see why people become so defensive tbh.
     
    #69
  10. clockstander

    clockstander Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2013
    Messages:
    22,120
    Likes Received:
    43,121
    For me this site is a very worthwhile and commendable one started by Sourpatch2 to explain and highlight the vagaries of football analysis. long may it continue .
     
    #70
    SourPatch2 and Smug in Boots like this.

  11. Chunksafc

    Chunksafc Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2023
    Messages:
    5,822
    Likes Received:
    15,429
    Is there any data on crosses into the box? There was at least 5 first half yesterday that were absolutely beautiful crosses. Just needed someone on the end of them.

    Wondered if they are picked up on any data analysis? Or if they weren't as good as I thought when watching
     
    #71
    Robertson likes this.
  12. SourPatch2

    SourPatch2 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2024
    Messages:
    7,492
    Likes Received:
    19,977
    This is where there is a flaw in data. Unless there's a metric I am unaware of, crosses that aren't completed aren't measured.

    I will do some looking but I think they will just be labelled as incomplete crosses.
     
    #72
    Chunksafc likes this.
  13. 123Daveyboy

    123Daveyboy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2018
    Messages:
    2,723
    Likes Received:
    4,011
    As far as I can tell no one has ever scored or saved a goal on a spread sheet.
     
    #73
  14. Chunksafc

    Chunksafc Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2023
    Messages:
    5,822
    Likes Received:
    15,429
    Shame that as there was at least 3 that looked absolutely beautiful and where crying out for a player to get on the end of in the first half.

    Where i sit in the east stand i got a really good view of them and they where a nightmare for the defence and ripe for a forward.
     
    #74
    WorkyTicketFTM and SourPatch2 like this.
  15. SourPatch2

    SourPatch2 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2024
    Messages:
    7,492
    Likes Received:
    19,977
    But the players who score or save for us were signed or play because they look good on a spreadsheet.
     
    #75
    Chunksafc likes this.
  16. Chunksafc

    Chunksafc Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2023
    Messages:
    5,822
    Likes Received:
    15,429
    Another question if no one minds. The GPS tracking the players have, I assume its used in training as well?

    Would explain why KS has mentioned team discussions about the team as it would involve data, fitness and also the coaches? So that's 2 lots or data plus and eye test from the coaching group?

    Or am I thinking that's too scientific?
     
    #76
    SourPatch2 and Southern A like this.
  17. 123Daveyboy

    123Daveyboy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2018
    Messages:
    2,723
    Likes Received:
    4,011
    Nothing that has happened or is expected is a guarantee it will happen. I will keep faith in my opinions, nothing you say will alter that.
     
    #77
  18. Smug in Boots

    Smug in Boots Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2011
    Messages:
    64,846
    Likes Received:
    150,498
    Many of our signings have come here despite looking poor on a spreadsheet ...

    ... Jack Clarke is just one example.

    That's why we're able to sign them for the price we did.

    If it was all do do with stats every club in the league would have the same access to them.

    It may have been more to do with scouting, personality checks or simply RLB/Speakman's judgement. Stats don't tell you anything about a player's character, previous relationship with players/staff/manager or how he could link up with existing players.

    I'm not being contrary but, unless you're actually working for SAFC, you don't really know why they were signed.

    You're just guessing what a spreadsheet had to do with it, nothing wrong with that though.
     
    #78
  19. SourPatch2

    SourPatch2 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2024
    Messages:
    7,492
    Likes Received:
    19,977
    Been looking at our subs this morning and found some interesting stuff. Firstly, last night was the first goal or assist by one of our subs this season (Browne against Leeds is down as a Firpo OG). Secondly, we haven't used our full allocation of subs at any point this season which I think is a bit stupid. Thirdly, our subs are so late. The only subs we've made before the 62nd minute were injury related, we haven't made one sub at half time and we've only made nine subs before the 70th minute. The average minute of our first sub is 69

    Don't think it's a clever use of subs at all and that is shown by the fact we've had zero goal contributions before last night from them. Even looking deeper into the individual games I think the use of subs has been poor, 1 sub against Millwall in the 58th minute (injury related) when we should be breaking up the flow of play and wasting time for example.
    IMG_4729.png
    IMG_4728.png
    IMG_4727.png
     
    #79
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2024
    clockstander, RTB, Scout73 and 4 others like this.
  20. Frazier the Lion

    Frazier the Lion Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2023
    Messages:
    1,640
    Likes Received:
    4,488
    It’s clear that it’s a preference rather than a consequence of squad strength IMO. RLB just isn’t that interested in subs. I’d be okay with that tbf (Pep is exactly the same) if he was more willing to rotate. However he does neither. Hopefully he adjusts this thinking one way or another.
     
    #80

Share This Page