Match Day Thread Tottenham Hotspur v Bournemouth

[BobbyD]

You guys are such fannies. Bournemouth are no mugs this season and actually play a pretty good game. They've already scalped man city and arsenal at home before this and its clear your players are knackered from basically playing the most number of games this season.

The only criticism for ange is that playing players out of position and not actually playing certain players has been his downfall and the use of his squad.

Give the man a chance

 

[remembercolinlee]

Nah he’ll still be in the job but the fans will start really getting on his back.

I still think late Jan/ Feb is when the hammer will get dropped if results keep going like this.

We have 1 important EL game and league cup game in the next 2 weeks plus Chelsea and Liverpool.

Levy will be weighing up us being out of contention for a top 6 finish, out of the cup and having play off games to get through in the EL.

I think tonight felt, looked and smelt like a team not doing what the manager wants them to do. I genuinely hope I'm wrong cos the never ending manager merry go round will continue.

We had JM (October 2019- April 21)

Mason Caretaker for final 6 or 7 games

Nuno (July 2021- October 21)

Conte (October 2021-April 23)

Caretaker bloke - 2 games

Mason as Caretaker for 5 or 6 games

Ange (June 2023-?)

4 permanent managers of varying personalities, footballing styles in 5 years is a major reason we are so inconsistent.

Unfortunately Levy doesn't give any of the projects the time they need.

We've only had Hoddle, Jol, RedKnapp and Pochettino that have lasted longer the 2 seasons.
Only Redknapp (3+ seasons) and Pochettino (5+ seasons) have been given more the 3 whole seasons.

To put that into perspective ...

1. David pleat was a caretaker manager from October 2003 to May 2004.

2. Santini quit after 3 months of shockingly boring football.

3. Ramos lasted a year but didn't complete a whole season.

4. AVB lasted 18 months.

5. Sherwood lasted 5 months.

In total we've had 12 permanent managers (plus Pleat who last nearly a season as a temp) appointed by levy in just 22 years.

5 didn't complete a whole season as our manager.

It's my big disagreement about how we're managed.
Levy is awful at choosing the right type of manager and at giving the time. Yet he is allowed (by the club) to continously be in charge of this.

That's why I think it'll be soon.

Hope I'm wrong tbf

 

[remembercolinlee]

There's a few stories floating around about Southgate being lined up to replace the Australian.

Get ****ed

 

[remembercolinlee]

You guys are such fannies. Bournemouth are no mugs this season and actually play a pretty good game. They've already scalped man city and arsenal at home before this and its clear your players are knackered from basically playing the most number of games this season.

The only criticism for ange is that playing players out of position and not actually playing certain players has been his downfall and the use of his squad.

Give the man a chance

Most want him to be given time ... we just ain't sure how much Levy will afford him

 

[Dier Hard]

We have 1 important EL game and league cup game in the next 2 weeks plus Chelsea and Liverpool.

Levy will be weighing up us being out of contention for a top 6 finish, out of the cup and having play off games to get through in the EL.

I think tonight felt, looked and smelt like a team not doing what the manager wants them to do. I genuinely hope I'm wrong cos the never ending manager merry go round will continue.

We had JM (October 2019- April 21)

Mason Caretaker for final 6 or 7 games

Nuno (July 2021- October 21)

Conte (October 2021-April 23)

Caretaker bloke - 2 games

Mason as Caretaker for 5 or 6 games

Ange (June 2023-?)

4 permanent managers of varying personalities, footballing styles in 5 years is a major reason we are so inconsistent.

Unfortunately Levy doesn't give any of the projects the time they need.

We've only had Hoddle, Jol, RedKnapp and Pochettino that have lasted longer the 2 seasons.
Only Redknapp (3+ seasons) and Pochettino (5+ seasons) have been given more the 3 whole seasons.

To put that into perspective ...

1. David pleat was a caretaker manager from October 2003 to May 2004.

2. Santini quit after 3 months of shockingly boring football.

3. Ramos lasted a year but didn't complete a whole season.

4. AVB lasted 18 months.

5. Sherwood lasted 5 months.

In total we've had 12 permanent managers (plus Pleat who last nearly a season as a temp) appointed by levy in just 22 years.

5 didn't complete a whole season as our manager.

It's my big disagreement about how we're managed.
Levy is awful at choosing the right type of manager and at giving the time. Yet he is allowed (by the club) to continously be in charge of this.

That's why I think it'll be soon.

Hope I'm wrong tbf

I said it to someone else too but I think it’s more that the players are ****ed than not doing what he says.

It’s exactly the same as last season, and I really do mean exactly. We were ****ed in December last year and most of our wins came from 20-30 spurts than strong 90 mins performances, Villa away was one of the rare games we done a number on a team for the whole 90.

Ange isn’t blameless by any means, his squad management and lack of use for certain players is shocking and tactically he needs to realise that running at 100mph isn’t sustainable but because his style is so overly intense you basically need two XIs to maintain the tempo in the Premier League in my opinion but instead of giving him quality or even depth in the summer, the board gave him another striker that struggles to score goals and a bunch of kids. I’m never against investing in youth but if you’re neglecting the present as this board has done, the future is never a certainty either.

The only potential upside to a new manager right now would be if they can implement a less intensive system but still utilise it for attacking purposes - basically another Pochettino or Redknapp for the matter - but knowing Levy we’d sack Ange and hire another George Graham or something.

 

[humanbeingincroydon]

It was my fault

Me and LadyC went to the cinema this evening, and we always seem to drop points when we do that

Also, go see Anora

 

[KingHotspur]

It was my fault

Me and LadyC went to the cinema this evening, and we always seem to drop points when we do that

Also, go see Anora

Judging by the league results over the last year, you must be at the cinema often

 

[humanbeingincroydon]

Judging by the league results over the last year, you must be at the cinema often

It was my birthday lunch when we no-showed against the Geordies in April

Apparently I need go be like Howard Hughes and we'll win the league

 

[Citizen Kane.]

I have a very bad feeling about this game. I fear it's where the wheels start to come off. Much of that can rightly be blamed on injuries, but we didn't play well enough when at full strength either so it's hardly a new problem.

Called it.

It pains me to say it, but it feels like we are at the beginning of a very familiar pattern.

 

[Citizen Kane.]

The question is whether Mason could do worse. I've changed my mind in that last 10 mins, I expect the answer is no for Levy. The players aren't on board anymore.

The players haven't been on board for any of our previous four managers, including Poch at the end.

Maybe the real problem is that too many of them are just ****e players with ****e mentalities?

 

[Citizen Kane.]

You guys are such fannies. Bournemouth are no mugs this season and actually play a pretty good game. They've already scalped man city and arsenal at home before this and its clear your players are knackered from basically playing the most number of games this season.

The only criticism for ange is that playing players out of position and not actually playing certain players has been his downfall and the use of his squad.

Give the man a chance

I think more fans would be fully behind him and fully against Levy if the perception was that Ange was trying his damned hardest to make things work, but for all of the reasons already posted, I'm afraid he's just making the decision that much easier for Levy to make.

His biggest problem is his lack of pragmatism. It isn't a tactical issue as we have shown (twice) against City that we can adapt our system and tactics when we have to. The issue is that Ange in principle never wants to.

Something as simple as multiple injuries should result in adjusting an approach, but it doesn't.

He is within his rights to amplify that problem by playing players out of position, but then the approach needs to be adjusted even further. It isn't.

I think back to how Poch demonstrated unbelievable pragmatism in the absence of Son, Kane and Vertonghen to keep us in the tie against Ajax by throwing his philosophy in the bin and restricting them to a 0-1 advantage to take back to Amsterdam.

We are currently living out Einstein's definition of insanity.

 

[Citizen Kane.]

Not looking great for Ange, couple videos show him going to the away fans and they’re basically telling him to do one.

When our away fans are pissed with you, that’s never a good sign.

Just a shame they aren’t venting at Levy though.

Poor reaction from him.

I don't think he's ever felt pressure like this before. Nothing can prepare you for the PL.

Outside of the old firm derby, every other game in the SPL is a pleasant way to pass the time.

 

[Fox Mulder]

Munse, as a WUM attempt that is 10x worse than that of Spurs tonight.

To dare is to do

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[Roo]

If this is to be the end of Ange’s tenure, who the hell do we bring in? We’ve gone for the cheaper option (than buying players) of the “trophy” manager twice, and it’s ended badly. We’ve now gone for the “project” manager after realising our mistakes, and this appears to not be working either. If he’s sacked, are we going to find another project manager out there who can do any better with the current young squad and the expensive mediocre players we continue to waste money on every summer? It’s a merry go round every 18months.

 

[Citizen Kane.]

If this is to be the end of Ange’s tenure, who the hell do we bring in? We’ve gone for the cheaper option (than buying players) of the “trophy” manager twice, and it’s ended badly. We’ve now gone for the “project” manager after realising our mistakes, and this appears to not be working either. If he’s sacked, are we going to find another project manager out there who can do any better with the current young squad and the expensive mediocre players we continue to waste money on every summer? It’s a merry go round every 18months.

I think our assessment of Ange as a 'project' manager may have been misplaced. He doesn't seem to possess the key skillset of such a manager which is to integrate and develop young players while coaching older players to be better. As I've said many times, he comes across as a more entertaining version of Jose or Conte.

What we're trying to do in the market most resembles Brighton imo, just we pay much more for similar talent because we are a wealthier club.

I think the answer is therefore self explanatory and, most importantly for Levy, cheap.

 

[BinghamSpur]

For me I'd stick until the end of the season and take stock. We all knew it was going to be painful but I for one have enjoyed a lot of the football played this season. Certainly take it over the turgid c*** that was being served up under the previous incumbents!
j
Ok injuries have ripped us open this season a bit and simply exposed what everyone has been saying - the squad depth is way too thin and lacks genuine experience at this level.

As you say if you do get rid now who steps in? Mason for the rest of the season? Sorry just won't work.

 

[Left on the Shelf]

You guys are such fannies. Bournemouth are no mugs this season and actually play a pretty good game. They've already scalped man city and arsenal at home before this and its clear your players are knackered from basically playing the most number of games this season.

The only criticism for ange is that playing players out of position and not actually playing certain players has been his downfall and the use of his squad.

Give the man a chance

But that's the problem with him. Its basic stuff - and directly leads to some players getting exhausted. I want him to succeed and see no benefit in getting rid at the moment, but he keeps repeating the same mistakes.

 

[Citizen Kane.]

For me I'd stick until the end of the season and take stock. We all knew it was going to be painful but I for one have enjoyed a lot of the football played this season. Certainly take it over the turgid c*** that was being served up under the previous incumbents!
j
Ok injuries have ripped us open this season a bit and simply exposed what everyone has been saying - the squad depth is way too thin and lacks genuine experience at this level.

As you say if you do get rid now who steps in? Mason for the rest of the season? Sorry just won't work.

I worry that the injuries are a result of his system and specifically the amount of sprints it requires from the players.

I worry that the perception of squad depth is mistaken. He apparently brought Spence back into the fold but has hardly used him, preferring a playing nominally signed as a midfielder to cover RB. On the other flank granted we didn't buy proper cover but if Reguilon isn't in his plans, why is he on the bench and why does he prefer using a player out of position to an actual LB who has travelled all the way to the game just to apparently sit there? Is he torturing the Spaniard? Was Spence omitted from the EL squad as a wind-up? Why start a young ST against one of Europe's strongest sides, see him score his maiden goal and then stop utilising him entirely?

I worry that the squad lacks experience, but that it is often our most experienced players who are the biggest let downs. Maddison, Son, Bissouma, Bentancur, Solanke have all been hugely disappointing this season. I don't think any of them are as good as others seem to think, but they're certainly a large step above mid table. Why or how is the manager seemingly unable to utilise his most experienced players more effectively?

As I've said, ultimately this falls on Levy if yet another manager is axed, but Ange himself is making the decision easier with each passing week.

 

[Dier Hard]

I still think talk of his immediate future is premature.

Without sounding big headed, I’ve called it for weeks/ months that late January/ Feb will be the crucial stage because by roughly the middle of Feb that’s where you’re gonna get a strong idea of what you’re likely league finish will be, you can guess within about 75% accuracy as to whether it’ll be a good or bad season. Right now it’s still too hard to say if we’ll finish 12th or 4th/5th… and that’s just too wide a gap to make a strong decision on a coach’s future.

What will also be further telling is what actually happens in January. If we give Ange a £100m+ January budget, then chances are we’re sticking by him through the rough which is what we need to do. If it ends up just being Yang and another Werner-esque loan, then expect to see Mason getting ready for his 3rd interim stint not too long afterwards.

 

[The Changing Man]

I worry that the squad lacks experience, but that it is often our most experienced players who are the biggest let downs. Maddison, Son, Bissouma, Bentancur, Solanke have all been hugely disappointing this season. I don't think any of them are as good as others seem to think, but they're certainly a large step above mid table. Why or how is the manager seemingly unable to utilise his most experienced players more effectively?

As I've said, ultimately this falls on Levy if yet another manager is axed, but Ange himself is making the decision easier with each passing week.

I don't want the club to sack another manager, but equally as you rightly say these players are better than they are currently showing and I strongly believe that there is core of players here who should be getting better results than we are. And most of that is down to the way that Ange wants to play, and lets be honest when its good it is great, but this season (in fact this calendar year) despite what the pundits may tell us, as a fan we have not been that great to watch, we have had our moments City, Villa 2nd half, but they have few and far between.

We are far too easy to play against in my opinion and a coach who makes us harder to play against should still be able to get us playing attractive football too.

Whilst my knee jerk reaction last night was to suggest that axe was being sharpened, I do think that Ange will probably survive til the end of the year at least, but if we were to lose the next 2 Chelsea and Rangers who knows....