Time for Jol to pack his bags.
- Thread starter Bandit
- Start date
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Captain & Bandit
" Frustration" is when you watch on tv,listen or read match reports.
" Desperation" is when you are a a season ticket holder.
I feel that mid Jan will decide both our and Jols premiership fate.
Should he go, and we find ourselves languishing at the bottom of the pile,
i would like to see Billy Mc put in charge, rather than some regurgitated has been.
" Frustration" is when you watch on tv,listen or read match reports.
" Desperation" is when you are a a season ticket holder.
I feel that mid Jan will decide both our and Jols premiership fate.
Should he go, and we find ourselves languishing at the bottom of the pile,
i would like to see Billy Mc put in charge, rather than some regurgitated has been.
I am a season ticket holder and I am frustrated! Not desperate yet. If we loose massively against Liverpool then I might be!
Might have something to do with us winning the next game against Stoke. But that's just a guess.
Evening one and all,
Bandy, great to have you back onboard mate, it has been too long. Hope the masters is not too brain draining.
Firstly, last night we did not do ourselves justice. I only saw the first 40 minutes as the rain decided to stop our signal. In that time I watched what was a very boring and tedious game. We seemed to revert back to our defensive style that worked so well in Europe before. We seemed to be happy absorbing the pressure and trying to hit them on the counter. In fairness to Martin Jol, if the players had done their jobs properly this could have been very effective. Bobby had a terrible first touch and his hold up play was crucial to our success. To be fair to him though, Douglas was doing a pretty good job of putting off his stride. We still have this default setting that we drop deep and defend well when things are not going right, against a team like Twente we will be dominated. Let's not forget that Twente have only been beaten 3 times in 31 games since early July. That is a pretty serious record.
As for Martin Jol, we need to give the guy a break. I think every football fan and pundit that has seen us play this season would admit that our place in the league is not a true representation of the quality of our football. Danny scoring against Newcastle, Bobby scoring against Everton and better finishing against Blackburn would see us on 19 points and in the top ten.
Instead of pointing the finger at Martin Jol, I think we should be acknowledging the hard job that he has taken over. An aging squad, very set in their ways, Europa League qualification and very little time to simply work on a new system, as opposed to preparing for games. We qualified for European group stage and have introduced new younger players. I can see that Jol is beginning to improve players as Bandy pointed out, Dembele is much better and Etuhu is improving as well !!
Ruiz is a top class player, he has the ability to play passes that split teams open, you cannot train that, you just have it. Kasami is young and in my opinion, Jol has messed up a bit with him. He cannot play on the wing, he is not disciplined enough yet to hold his position. He needs to be playing in the middle. These are small things that take time to iron out.
Sacking a manager not even half way through the season is ridiculous. When you look at the bigger picture, Martin Jol had so much more to do at Fulham than just walk into the managers job. He is trying to impliment a new system of playing and also has been given the responsibilty of transforming the squad, that cannot happen overnight. It will take time and support from all the fans and the club as a whole. He has won titles and cups and been successful accross Europe, the guy is a quality manager. Keep the faith, this season is a transition. Next season will be when he takes us forward.
COYW
Bandy, great to have you back onboard mate, it has been too long. Hope the masters is not too brain draining.
Firstly, last night we did not do ourselves justice. I only saw the first 40 minutes as the rain decided to stop our signal. In that time I watched what was a very boring and tedious game. We seemed to revert back to our defensive style that worked so well in Europe before. We seemed to be happy absorbing the pressure and trying to hit them on the counter. In fairness to Martin Jol, if the players had done their jobs properly this could have been very effective. Bobby had a terrible first touch and his hold up play was crucial to our success. To be fair to him though, Douglas was doing a pretty good job of putting off his stride. We still have this default setting that we drop deep and defend well when things are not going right, against a team like Twente we will be dominated. Let's not forget that Twente have only been beaten 3 times in 31 games since early July. That is a pretty serious record.
As for Martin Jol, we need to give the guy a break. I think every football fan and pundit that has seen us play this season would admit that our place in the league is not a true representation of the quality of our football. Danny scoring against Newcastle, Bobby scoring against Everton and better finishing against Blackburn would see us on 19 points and in the top ten.
Instead of pointing the finger at Martin Jol, I think we should be acknowledging the hard job that he has taken over. An aging squad, very set in their ways, Europa League qualification and very little time to simply work on a new system, as opposed to preparing for games. We qualified for European group stage and have introduced new younger players. I can see that Jol is beginning to improve players as Bandy pointed out, Dembele is much better and Etuhu is improving as well !!
Ruiz is a top class player, he has the ability to play passes that split teams open, you cannot train that, you just have it. Kasami is young and in my opinion, Jol has messed up a bit with him. He cannot play on the wing, he is not disciplined enough yet to hold his position. He needs to be playing in the middle. These are small things that take time to iron out.
Sacking a manager not even half way through the season is ridiculous. When you look at the bigger picture, Martin Jol had so much more to do at Fulham than just walk into the managers job. He is trying to impliment a new system of playing and also has been given the responsibilty of transforming the squad, that cannot happen overnight. It will take time and support from all the fans and the club as a whole. He has won titles and cups and been successful accross Europe, the guy is a quality manager. Keep the faith, this season is a transition. Next season will be when he takes us forward.
COYW
I believe the malaise reflected in this thread (and many others before) stems from the ONE truly bad decision made by Jol.
I'd take you back to June. Jol started our Euro campaign by playing a group of senior players who wanted a break. Not only did he fail to recognise this but he also lost the opportunity to bed in new/younger players. His only 'experiment' was to tinker with a pair of established CBs. Two bad decisions in one?
He has compounded this in the 27 games since by persistently playing the same (small) squad. [Only 2 of his 5 signings have featured in any significant way - and one of those is Riise!] Consequently:
* team selection has not always suited the game plan ( for example, the one last night when playing for 0-0 and worse, not learning from the lesson at Stoke)
* constant play has led to minor knocks and missed games, leading to mini re-shuffles - affecting consistency
* players being asked to play unfamiliar roles, that varies from game to game - again affecting consistency
* substitutions that are bizarre
By that single decision Jol made his bed. By not getting out of it, he smacks of being in denial. That is my worry.
Very Avram Grantesque.
I'd take you back to June. Jol started our Euro campaign by playing a group of senior players who wanted a break. Not only did he fail to recognise this but he also lost the opportunity to bed in new/younger players. His only 'experiment' was to tinker with a pair of established CBs. Two bad decisions in one?
He has compounded this in the 27 games since by persistently playing the same (small) squad. [Only 2 of his 5 signings have featured in any significant way - and one of those is Riise!] Consequently:
* team selection has not always suited the game plan ( for example, the one last night when playing for 0-0 and worse, not learning from the lesson at Stoke)
* constant play has led to minor knocks and missed games, leading to mini re-shuffles - affecting consistency
* players being asked to play unfamiliar roles, that varies from game to game - again affecting consistency
* substitutions that are bizarre
By that single decision Jol made his bed. By not getting out of it, he smacks of being in denial. That is my worry.
Very Avram Grantesque.
C58 I agree that he started playing the senior team but on 30th June ha had just come in and no transfers as yet.
Later on he featured a few youngsters like Briggs, Frei, Kasami, Riise the younger but we are still a small squad. Don't forget that those qualifying games were preparation games too.
The game against Arsenal is an example that the team can control the game and Jol can read the opponent.
Have to say that on Thursday a few players should have been rested and some of them like Riise and Bobby should have not started at all!
Later on he featured a few youngsters like Briggs, Frei, Kasami, Riise the younger but we are still a small squad. Don't forget that those qualifying games were preparation games too.
The game against Arsenal is an example that the team can control the game and Jol can read the opponent.
Have to say that on Thursday a few players should have been rested and some of them like Riise and Bobby should have not started at all!
If you recall, Bandit, I was one of the voices saying we should stick with Hughes at this time last year.
From what I've seen and from what I've read (I admit, I don't get to as many games as I would like, as others on here have graciously pointed out. But that doesn't invalidate my opinion), we've had some good performances under Jol. The impression I get of our season is that we haven't got the goals that our performances have deserved, which has (of course) cost us points. Although I'd happily take a few more points from bad displays like Wigan away, I'm less worried because it sounds like we're playing well. If we were consistently playing badly I'd be more worried, even if we had a few more points. It takes time to bed in a new way of playing, and I think we're getting there.
Would Jol stay if we went down? I suspect he wouldn't walk away, whether out of professional pride or in order to not miss out on a payout for getting sacked. If we don't sack him, I think he'd do a good job in getting us back up - he's an excellent manager, as the way he transformed Spurs shows, and I think he's making progress with us. All we are missing is a striker who regularly puts the ball away. The missing link may be someone who is already in the team and underperforming in front of goal (such as Bobby), it may be someone who we try to bring in during the next window (such as the rumours of our continued interest in Gignac), or it may be a youngster currently outside the first team (such as Trotta or Dalla Valle). My guess is that options 1 and 2 are more likely than 3, but who knows.
The point is, he's a quality manager and to my eyes he's onto something. It may only be in flashes and spells in games so far, but some of our performances (Spurs; second half versus Man City) show that we're not the hopeless cases we were under Sanchez. If we go down, we will rebuild better by trusting in continuity rather than ripping up the blueprints and starting from scratch for the third successive season. And I don't think we'll go down anyway, as I said. We do need to start turning performances into wins though.
If we are going back to Sparky, many people were disappointed about the manner of his departure, implying that they would have liked him to stay, including those calling for his head up to the West Ham home fiasco. For me, I was supportive of him staying. Similarly, I support MJ and want to give him the time to do his job.
Yes Gera.
Whilst I was not a great fan of Hughes', I certainly did not want him sacked, I think he should have had this season as well, but he decided otherwise.
such an expert with a caber
