Match Day Thread Manchester City vs Southampton Sat 26th, 3pm at the Etihad

[LincolnSaint]

Yeah, I can't disagree that their decision making re managers hasn't been good, but I wouldn't say that the RM appointment has been bad. That one is still playing out.

I also wouldn't make the assumption that "RM is here to stay....coupled with them appearing to be absolutely fine with that". I really wouldn't.

Why not? From the players they've purchased in the summer, to RM still being in a job despite having the worst stats as a PL manager for Saints, to little snippets about 10 year plans to pet journos gives me the very strong impression that they don't really care if we go down this year.

Don't get me wrong, I'm fully aware none of us are privvy to the inner workings of the club and I'm not expecting the board to start giving public ultimatums to RM but actions speak louder than words. Everything they've done from Wembley onwards appears that they're very comfortable with relegation. It's odd.

 

[Le Tissier's Laces]

Why not? From the players they've purchased in the summer, to RM still being in a job despite having the worst stats as a PL manager for Saints, to little snippets about 10 year plans to pet journos gives me the very strong impression that they don't really care if we go down this year.

Don't get me wrong, I'm fully aware none of us are privvy to the inner workings of the club and I'm not expecting the board to start giving public ultimatums to RM but actions speak louder than words. Everything they've done from Wembley onwards appears that they're very comfortable with relegation. It's odd.

That was very much not the conversation I had with them the other day, if that counts for anything.

 

[Saintmagic]

The key questions they have right now are - are we likely to go down, and do we accept that already. If no, when does a change get made. If yes, is there enough about RM and his potential to suggest that he's right to bring us back up again, and to have learned enough through that process to make a better fist of things the next time we come up. If the answer there is no, who is available to bring in who would be able, long term, to do that.

The impression I get is that they think there is potential with RM to create what they want to, but they're not ready to give up on this season yet, so if we lose the next two, I suspect they'll make that change. If we manage to win one or both of the next two, they'll stick and see it through, in the belief that RM is talented enough to grow the club over the next couple of seasons.

But if we lose the next two then the “are we ready to give up on the season” most likely switched from a no to a yes. So then it’s the second question of whether he is the man to bring us back/learn from the experience.

 

[Le Tissier's Laces]

But if we lose the next two then the “are we ready to give up on the season” most likely switched from a no to a yes. So then it’s the second question of whether he is the man to bring us back/learn from the experience.

Exactly this. That's the quandary.

 

[Saintmagic]

Exactly this. That's the quandary.

So you think if we lose the next two RM stays as they see potential and think he can grow and the season is a write off anyway, if we win one or both of the next two then he stays as they think he might’ve turned a corner and aren’t ready to give up on the season?

 

[LincolnSaint]

That was very much not the conversation I had with them the other day, if that counts for anything.

I've absolutely no reason to imply you're telling anything but the truth mate, but were they?

 

[Le Tissier's Laces]

So you think if we lose the next two RM stays as they see potential and think he can grow and the season is a write off anyway, if we win one or both of the next two then he stays as they think he might’ve turned a corner and aren’t ready to give up on the season?

No, I think if he loses the next two he's gone. But that's with the proviso that there's someone else out there willing to take the role.

Put it this way, if Potter had said "yeah I'd be up for it", I think they'd have made that change already.

 

[Le Tissier's Laces]

I've absolutely no reason to imply you're telling anything but the truth mate, but were they?

Yeah. You can read these things at the time. They're looking at the plans in terms of what happens and how it works if we go down, but they've certainly not accepted it, or are happy about it.

I don't think you can say that spending £100m odd is a club that doesn't give a toss about staying up either.

 

[Saintmagic]

No, I think if he loses the next two he's gone. But that's with the proviso that there's someone else out there willing to take the role.

Put it this way, if Potter had said "yeah I'd be up for it", I think they'd have made that change already.

If we lose the next two then there will be 29 games left for a manager to come in and be about 10 points from safety worst case? I don’t see many managers queuing up for that. It’s long enough (games wise) for everyone to get pissed off and sacked if the form continues but also a huge challenge to keep a team up being that far adrift.

We will be far more attractive in the summer after relegation than right now I think. The top championship managers, as an example, who are in the hunt for autos/play offs aren’t going to leave their clubs now to come to us unless they think it’s their only shot at the big time (see Jones, and the situation wasn’t as desperate then as a 1 point after 11 games scenario)

We would be in a real quandary about what to do in that scenario. Be hard to attract anyone who we want long term

 

[Le Tissier's Laces]

If we lose the next two then there will be 29 games left for a manager to come in and be about 10 points from safety worst case? I don’t see many managers queuing up for that. It’s long enough (games wise) for everyone to get pissed off and sacked if the form continues but also a huge challenge to keep a team up being that far adrift.

We will be far more attractive in the summer after relegation than right now I think. The top championship managers, as an example, who are in the hunt for autos/play offs aren’t going to leave their clubs now to come to us unless they think it’s their only shot at the big time (see Jones, and the situation wasn’t as desperate then as a 1 point after 11 games scenario)

We would be in a real quandary about what to do in that scenario. Be hard to attract anyone who we want long term

Well this is it.

I absolutely think that were there a viable option out there that was a clear improvement and who was up for it, that change would have been made already. Now with Potter clearly not getting the MU role, does that change things again? Let's see. (I'm using Potter as an example as it's the obvious one).

The thing is, it would seem that that person doesn't currently exist, so the question is how long does one continue with the RM experiment to see whether he's good enough to turn it around. Financially sacking him, then getting in a short term stop-gap Mark Hughes type who then gets sacked later doesn't make any sense. We've been burned on that one before.

 

[Saintmagic]

Well this is it.

I absolutely think that were there a viable option out there that was a clear improvement and who was up for it, that change would have been made already. Now with Potter clearly not getting the MU role, does that change things again? Let's see. (I'm using Potter as an example as it's the obvious one).

The thing is, it would seem that that person doesn't currently exist, so the question is how long does one continue with the RM experiment to see whether he's good enough to turn it around. Financially sacking him, then getting in a short term stop-gap Mark Hughes type who then gets sacked later doesn't make any sense. We've been burned on that one before.

Well if we continue with the experiment past the next two games, and lose both of them I don’t see any point in sacking him as we are 99.99% down anyway.

Even if the “right” manager is out there at that time, 29 games is a lot of time for them to start being the “wrong” manager, and fans turning on them before next season starts. Or worse the players so then you have a scenario where you are going into the season where you need a fresh voice for a promotion push

 

[San Tejón]

I think our opponents tonight are an example of a club with wealthy owners who have perhaps not done as much as they should/could have done to, firstly, keep them in the Premier League and secondly go hard for promotion.
I mentioned the other day that my mate from Stoke has become totally disillusioned with football in general, but he has been a long time complainer about how little money the Coates family has put into the playing side of the club and the current rules now make it even more difficult for them to do so.
The club has recently “demerged” from the bet365 group and is now in the sole ownership of John Coates and all club debts have been cleared, so maybe they will see an upturn in their fortunes in the future.