Off Topic JULY 4th 2024 6 months JAN 2025 ..chaos+ more fibs +roughshod attitudes+backtracking +++ C R A S H++

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thats a more serious blow to 60 or so that have shown dissent and the key phraseology ......................

Red Alert said:
As Prime Minister, your managerial and technocratic approach, and lack of basic politics and political instincts, have come crashing down on us as a party after we worked so hard, promised so much
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I was reading a media post that said something similar on Thursday afternoon referred to Kamikaze as a lawyer type legal type person who didnt have a clue about leadership or politics, and how they work [ legal v politics is completely different to the spoutings he makes / made glorifying his so called illustrious career as a barrister [ or whatever title he has ]... As opposition leader posted on here by various was his failings as an opposition leader, hindsight being his driver... lack of plans ...had no clear way forward other than blah blah blah 12 years blah blah 13 years blah blah 14 years.

In reality to try and paint a colourful picture he has cancelled last .gov projects dressed up others in new clothing [ ooops no pun intended ] with no clear way to fund or execute them bit like a headless clown then!!!

mind you Rosie doesnt seem to be an angel .. but I guesss she got this right!
 
There are elements of the Labour Party that have an axe to grind. It’s a downside of having such a large majority that they know they can criticise and get away with it. Also the leadership don’t have to worry too much, as they’re aware even if some moan or even leave and become either independents, or even cross the house, they’ll still have a massive majority.
 
AshtonRed said:
they’re aware even if some moan or even leave and become either independents, or even cross the house, they’ll still have a massive majority.
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even with the 60 dissidents they have a majority of about 60 but would the dissents risk loosing the whip!
 
Red Alert said:
Rosie Duffield Labour MP quits party over sleaze and Two tiers hypocrisy.

Having a right pop at Starmer

“As Prime Minister, your managerial and technocratic approach, and lack of basic politics and political instincts, have come crashing down on us as a party after we worked so hard, promised so much, and waited a long fourteen years to be mandated by the British public to return to power.

Since the change of government in July, the revelations of hypocrisy have been staggering and increasingly outrageous. I cannot put into words how angry I and my colleagues are at your total lack of understanding about how you have made us all appear.

How dare you take our longed-for victory, the electorate's sacred and precious trust, and throw it back in their individual faces and the faces of dedicated and hardworking Labour MPs?!

The sleaze, nepotism and apparent avarice are off the scale. I am so ashamed of what you and your inner circle have done to tarnish and humiliate our once proud party.”
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Telling the world what they already strongly suspected
This is a PM with no real political views who can’t even make up his mind on basic principles
This is a party who were in opposition for 14 years (as they keep telling us) so what have they been doing all that time ?
What they clearly haven’t been doing is preparing to govern the country with any credibility
 
Rosie Duffield Labour MP quits labour due to sleaze and winter fuel payment being taken from pensioners.
AshtonRed said:
I was merely saying it’s too early to judge the present government yet, give it time.
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Ok I can judge the spectacle the Labour party is making of itself. You have been completely unable to articulate what Labours plans are to slash immigration, you don't know. Lets do another one, we have an ageing population, we have vast shortages of staff for the care sector, the cost of this care provision will only increase for the UK. Labour have been in opposition for fourteen years and Wes Streeting says social care needs reform, now Labour are in Government what does Labour's social care reform look like?
 
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Cliftonville said:
Rosie Duffield Labour MP quits labour due to sleaze and winter fuel payment being taken from pensioners.


Ok I can judge the spectacle the Labour party is making of itself. You have been completely unable what Labours plans are to slash immigration, you don't know. Lets do another one, we have an ageing population, we have vast shortages of staff for the care sector, the cost of this care provision will only increase for the UK. Labour have been in opposition for fourteen years and Wes Streeting says social care needs reform, now Labour are in Government what does Labour's social care reform look like?
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The only visible policies that Labour seem to have is giving way above inflation pay rises to rail staff and Junior Doctors and not listening AT ALL to anyone with an anti anti wide open borders opinion
But we all knew this would happen
 
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realred1952 said:
what did he say... anything nice?
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He went much further than Rosie Duffield. When both represent either wing of Labour you realise the mess Starmer is presiding over.
Does he care with £32,000 of clothes, not a bit, 'I have to look good'.
As for pensioners, 'we all have to make sacrifices'.
All politicians are at it.
I thought Keir Starmer was OK, boring but decent.
Alas, he and his Cabinet are the worst kind of Champagne Socialists.
 
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Cliftonville said:
Rosie Duffield Labour MP quits labour due to sleaze and winter fuel payment being taken from pensioners.


Ok I can judge the spectacle the Labour party is making of itself. You have been completely unable what Labours plans are to slash immigration, you don't know. Lets do another one, we have an ageing population, we have vast shortages of staff for the care sector, the cost of this care provision will only increase for the UK. Labour have been in opposition for fourteen years and Wes Streeting says social care needs reform, now Labour are in Government what does Labour's social care reform look like?
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Give them time, I agree it needs dealing with, but to be fair the Tories have been in government for 14 years, what have they done in that time?, and what we’re their plans?, these are all big issues that need dealing with precisely because the previous government failed to deal with them.
 
AshtonRed said:
Give them time,.
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Labour in opposition have had fourteen years to create their plan for social care reform. Labours election manifesto was called change, a plan for the future. In the manifesto there is a section called social care reform, not only do Labour state social care needs reform, they state it needs deep reform, and Labour will undertake a programme of reform.

That is a lot of reform. Reform literally means make changes. We have recently had the Labour party conference where the Labour party laid out their plans for social care reform. So what is the deep reform Labour are proposing? What is the programme to support this reform?
 
Cliftonville said:
Rosie Duffield Labour MP quits labour due to sleaze and winter fuel payment being taken from pensioners.

Ok I can judge the spectacle the Labour party is making of itself. You have been completely unable what Labours plans are to slash immigration, you don't know. Lets do another one, we have an ageing population, we have vast shortages of staff for the care sector, the cost of this care provision will only increase for the UK. Labour have been in opposition for fourteen years and Wes Streeting says social care needs reform, now Labour are in Government what does Labour's social care reform look like?
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Are you obsessed with me?, carry on like this and you may get picked up for stalking!
 
AshtonRed said:
but to be fair the Tories have been in government for 14 years, what have they done in that time?, and what we’re their plans?
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Ashton you are now beginning to come over like like Kamikaze 2 tier freebie lover and his cronies ....

they are in the mess they are now because for the best part of the last 14 years they have been jimmy opposites of most .gov plans .. spent ages of time investigating what minute iota of sleaze they can drag up to attack person/ s and .gov INSTEAD of actually being helpful constructive and putting together a plan and how to fund it [ they never came up with a single proposal in past 4 years, or assisted in ideas to help along existing ] ... result being 3 months before expected Rishi calls an election .. and the KAMIKAZE CREW started a hasty list of "plans drawn up without knowledge on how to go forward.. and the one thing they lack in ABUNDANCE is patience ... ..... ROME wasnt built in a day ..............
 
realred1952 said:
Ashton you are now beginning to come over like like Kamikaze 2 tier freebie lover and his cronies ....

they are in the mess they are now because for the best part of the last 14 years they have been jimmy opposites of most .gov plans .. spent ages of time investigating what minute iota of sleaze they can drag up to attack person/ s and .gov INSTEAD of actually being helpful constructive and putting together a plan and how to fund it [ they never came up with a single proposal in past 4 years, or assisted in ideas to help along existing ] ... result being 3 months before expected Rishi calls an election .. and the KAMIKAZE CREW started a hasty list of "plans drawn up without knowledge on how to go forward.. and the one thing they lack in ABUNDANCE is patience ... ..... ROME wasnt built in a day ..............
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The whole point of opposition it to point out the mistakes of the ruling party, let’s wait and see how Tories respond to a labours plans, they will do exactly the same. To think otherwise is naive
 
AshtonRed said:
The whole point of opposition it to point out the mistakes of the ruling party,
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THEY WERE MISTAKES!! FOR 14 YEARS! come on... paid off the debt left, increased nurses / doctors/ police /built roads [ part of the keep working in Covid ] hospitals renovated a couple started building and others added to, used /funded close to £1 trillion on getting through COVID AND ENERGY CRISIS ... and left a debt of £13bn [ £22bn if take in projects in hand for 24/25 some now cancelled ] ..................

OH and started afresh after the spike [ worldwide at the time ] in interest rates and inflation and got them on a downward spiral as low as 2% currently 2.25! inflation and interest down to %5. THATS SOME REALLY BIG MISTAKES and to boot through all that took care of the population
 
NHS fked, police numbers reduced, got rid of 50,000 experienced officers, then years later funnily enough raised them by the same number, (duh maybe they shouldn’t have got rid of them in the first place), plus the new ones don’t have the experience of the previous ones, trains fked, water boards fjd, Pooh everywhere, immigration fkd. Infrastructure fkd. I got fed up thinking of the areas messed up at that point.

Oh and the Tory party imploding, everyone fighting each other. Why do you think everyone wanted rid of them, during the GE pretty much the entire population voted for whichever party would be most likely to beat the Torries.

IF you genuinely believe they were successful you are in a very small minority of the population,

even the Tory party themselves think they messed up, that’s why they are at present soul searching and trying to decide how to change, and adapt.
 
AshtonRed said:
NHS fked, police numbers reduced,
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just 2 items ..nhs the same report was delivered to this Labour .gov that was given in the latter stages of their tenure 2007 2010 NHS screwed!! Police were not enlisted when officers left as the pot was empty due last Labour .gov debts and Black hole .........

IF and dont like using that word to much to highlight things .... covid had never happened I wonder Boris would have likely called a GE ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,in a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT WORLD ! Less boat illegals .... more nurses than now ... more police than now ... lower inflation than now ........lower interest rates than now ......... pensioners happy and not being killed off ...
 
realred1952 said:
just 2 items ..nhs the same report was delivered to this Labour .gov that was given in the latter stages of their tenure 2007 2010 NHS screwed!! Police were not enlisted when officers left as the pot was empty due last Labour .gov debts and Black hole .........

IF and dont like using that word to much to highlight things .... covid had never happened I wonder Boris would have likely called a GE ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,in a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT WORLD ! Less boat illegals .... more nurses than now ... more police than now ... lower inflation than now ........lower interest rates than now ......... pensioners happy and not being killed off ...
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Had there not been a worldwide banking crisis in 2008 the 2010 GE would have been called in a much different world. The point is both happened and BOTH parties were judged on how they dealt with them.

The parallels for me is both the Tory party this time, and to a degree, the Labour Party I’m 2010, had both been in power for a long time, and both had run out of steam.
 
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