Match Day Thread Hull City v Sheff Utd

[SydneyTiger14]

When everyone knows where the opposition goals are going to come from then it's time to change something, regardless of dedication to his style. What is it with modern managers being inflexible? You'd think it would be the opposite!

Maybe because I watch a few different sports, but one thing I've found relatively intriguing is how wedded football is to its boxing in players to particular positions. It's almost like as an 18 year old you are deemed a left winger, or a striker, or a CB, and there is almost no scope or imagination for you being anything but that even if as a 22 year old you have almost entirely different attributes to those you had as an 18 year old. As someone who watches a lot of Aussie Rules where players can be drafted (recruited/signed) as a defender and end up having a strong career as a forward, or begin their career playing across defence before being thrown into the midfield once they develop, it's something I've always found strange.

An extreme example but you'd never see a Jacob Greaves breaking through as a CB and then after a few years developing into a striker.

So in a similar vein, as you say, it's quite incredible that managers develop a style and then seem entirely stubborn and wedded to it, even if the playing personnel or attributes of their side or the game in question call for something entirely different.

 

[highpeak tiger]

wedding football

?

 

[SydneyTiger14]

?

Wedded*

 

[Ajbtiger]

?

A lot of weddings have bouncy castles these days, you use them as goals so you can dive about whilst everyone takes turns to shoot. Wedding football.

 

[Vern]

I am, not by much mind you but I like what we're trying to do in the final third much more. Shame about the 1st two thirds at the moment.

Same result as LR at the moment in terms of success in our attacks (generalising the problems here, clearly LR and our old players had successes at times) but the main difference for me is that we used to patiently pass around waiting for the perfect opportunity until the ball reached a less composed player, the fans groaned and a wasteful pass/cross would ensue.

Now there's far more intent to get it in to dangerous areas much quicker but the quality has been lacking. I think there's a bit of a confidence issue too which if fixed probably brings about a bit of luck that we could really use right now.

The odd goal may help. Five games in and one goal from open play.

 

[originalminority]

A lot of weddings have bouncy castles these days, you use them as goals so you can dive about whilst everyone takes turns to shoot. Wedding football.

High tempo Wedding Football or slow death march Funeral Football?

 

[Ajbtiger]

High tempo Wedding Football or slow death march Funeral Football?

I think both lead to an eventual divorce.

 

[John Ex Aberdeen now E.R.]

I don't think there are a lot of mixed opinions at all.

Offensively we're impotent and have been in every game so far. Defensively we're ****ing clueless and a simple ball through the middle gets them in behind time, and time, and time again it's ****ing predictable.

Not just this game we've not looked like winning a single one of them.

Personally I was not expecting a Stella performance last night, in fact I thought we would be overrun as the Blunts are clearly much further forward in getting a settled side. However, apart from the mistakes for the goals, we at least didn't get steam rollered as I was expecting.

This team has only just come together, TW now has to mould them into a functioning unit, whist on the hoof so to speak. I think it is unfair to overally criticise too much until he has had time, to first sort out what his best 11 are, and then get them firing.

 

[allowentry]

Seeing as the white ****e lost, I hope I bump into that **** from last night, I'll be chanting clarets....twat!

 

[Benjo]

Personally I was not expecting a Stella performance last night, in fact I thought we would be overrun as the Blunts are clearly much further forward in getting a settled side. However, apart from the mistakes for the goals, we at least didn't get steam rollered as I was expecting.

This team has only just come together, TW now has to mould them into a functioning unit, whist on the hoof so to speak. I think it is unfair to overally criticise too much until he has had time, to first sort out what his best 11 are, and then get them firing.

This. It's amazing, but not surprising either, how many don't seem to understand, or are conveniently ignoring the amount of change we're having to deal with at the moment.

Right now this team is literally a bunch of strangers. Time will change that. Those of them that aren't strangers are having to learn a completely alien way of playing and they're struggling to do it effectively. Time will change that.

People that think we're seeing the finished article now, or that think we should be beating teams like Leeds and Sheff Utd this soon is just laughable. 4 of the promising new players haven't played yet, and the others that have now featured, let's be honest, have barely played.

 

[Wildie]

In the bottom 3

 

[WSTiger]

I am. When we do actually beat the press we move the ball a lot quicker and are able to open teams up. We’re also quicker on the counter. There were several examples in the first half last night. In one case, Pandur had the ball, Jones rotated into midfield and received it from Pandur to play a first-touch pass to Ömür who carried the ball into loads of space, played it to Kamara on the left who attempted a cut-back to Bedia to what would’ve been a tap-in but the final ball by Kamara was poor and was blocked for a corner. It went from Pandur to winning a corner from a good opportunity in about 10-15 seconds. Another passage of play in the first half saw Mehlem run with the ball with three City players ahead of him making clever runs but he took too long to pass and got tackled.

Contrary to what a lot of people have been saying, I think we did execute the style better and we are getting into good positions but the final ball is so piss-poor and ultimately, that is down to the players.

Yes we did something like that on more than once occasion sliced thru them like butter. But as you say Kamara's final ball was very poor, he miss hit the ball with his left foot and he did that more than once later I was thinking to myself at the time that this guy is no Jaden Philogene and its going to be a while before he is going to be worth 15M. In fact I was disappointed with the debuts of both new wingers and clearly on those displayes Millar is head and shoulders above both, Was nervous about giving Burns a start and my nervousness was clearly well founded since his inclusion did not pan out. Not sure why Zambrano did not keep his spot, nor why Puerta was not even on the bench but based upon what Walter said sounds like he does not think he is up to speed yet? We got plenty of crosses in but only once had quality and that should have been in. Baz clearly did not think much of it, and in his piece this morning painted a grim picture with prediction that losses in the next two games would test Acuns patience. And it goes without saying the patience of the fans.

 

[Leon...]

Maybe because I watch a few different sports, but one thing I've found relatively intriguing is how wedded football is to its boxing in players to particular positions. It's almost like as an 18 year old you are deemed a left winger, or a striker, or a CB, and there is almost no scope or imagination for you being anything but that even if as a 22 year old you have almost entirely different attributes to those you had as an 18 year old. As someone who watches a lot of Aussie Rules where players can be drafted (recruited/signed) as a defender and end up having a strong career as a forward, or begin their career playing across defence before being thrown into the midfield once they develop, it's something I've always found strange.

An extreme example but you'd never see a Jacob Greaves breaking through as a CB and then after a few years developing into a striker.

So in a similar vein, as you say, it's quite incredible that managers develop a style and then seem entirely stubborn and wedded to it, even if the playing personnel or attributes of their side or the game in question call for something entirely different.

Even in kids' development football, I see players' positions almost fixed. These are kids under 10 too. Not sure if this is the case in professional clubs' academies - perhaps someone can shed some light. But definitely in grassroots, in my experience of it anyway.

In the professional game, I can only think of a few example in the past (I'm sure there are more but not that many). Chris Sutton; Paul Warhurst; Peter Swan - all CB to CF (with the latter think that was just with us). Windass CM - CF. Didn't Magennis start as a GK?

 

[Heimdallr]

Even in kids' development football, I see players' positions almost fixed. These are kids under 10 too. Not sure if this is the case in professional clubs' academies - perhaps someone can shed some light. But definitely in grassroots, in my experience of it anyway.

In the professional game, I can only think of a few example in the past (I'm sure there are more but not that many). Chris Sutton; Paul Warhurst; Peter Swan - all CB to CF (with the latter think that was just with us). Windass CM - CF. Didn't Magennis start as a GK?

Alan Smith - Leeds CF to Manchester United and Milton Keynes cm. Whatever happened to him

 

[GLP]

Second bottom

 

[bradymk2]

23rd after 5 games
23rd for goals scored


Progress!
Excellent

Anything but 4 pts minimum from next 2 or walters sacked

 

[bradymk2]

Only 3 teams without a win so far..

 

[petersaxton]

One of the problems we have is too big a squad surely. We’ve two players for each position with no real obvious main player and understudy in many of the positions.
That cannot be good

Other than Millar who is really nailed on?

I thought it was good to have two players for every position
it's even better if they are both as good as each other

 

[Mckechnie Orange]

I thought it was good to have two players for every position
it's even better if they are both as good as each other

Most managers do seem to consider 2 players competing for each position and maybe 3 keepers optimal, but there are areas where we have more than that and it will be interesting to see how that is managed.

 

[Newland Tiger]

I thought it was good to have two players for every position
it's even better if they are both as good as each other

No good having 2 players who are both mediocre