Off Topic Politics Thread

[Osvaldorama]

Holy ****, I almost fell off my chair reading that one

I change my opinion when new facts are presented all the time. Just no one on here seems to say anything new. I can predict schad & jabbos responses to almost every discussion before they happen. (Orange man bad, insult anyone who disagrees with labour/Biden)

 

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I change my opinion when new facts are presented all the time. Just no one on here seems to say anything new. I can predict schad & jabbos responses to almost every discussion before they happen. (Orange man bad, insult anyone who disagrees with labour/Biden)

Schad has posted here twice in the last three months. Let your obsession go…

 

[Puck]

We do, but we have a horrible imbalance in age. 19% of the population is past retirement age. That means over 11.4 million people in the UK are currently a drain on the UK financially. 17 million people in the UK are under 18. That leaves 38 million people caring for 28.4 million people.

Add to that that we as a country don't give a crap about caring industries (mental health, nursing, etc..) and don't pay enough for any right-minded indigenous person to want to do that work, and you have a nation that is totally reliant on outsourcing its care to people from other countries. And, as the pay is low, it has to be countries where the pay is low.

We haven't invested in the people of the UK for 15 years, so it isn't any surprise at all that we have become reliant on immigration.

That said, the one million figure for immigration does include 500k per year coming in for an education. This is both a great boost to the economy but also means many Universities are now very much tailored towards teaching the Chinese.

So, no, I don't think it is easy to change the way we do our visas. We need to change the way we think about social care and start spending money on the people who do it. Then we won't need the visas.

Not sure "drain" is the best word to use but I know what you mean. I don't think this is an issue that's been created in the last 15 years though. It's deeper than that. Our society worked in certain way until about 60 years ago and our welfare state was largely shaped under that previous way of living. For one thing, at that point the state didn't need to provide childcare or care for the elderly to the same extent it does now because people didn't live as long and women generally stayed at home and looked after kids and elderly relatives. And no, I'm not saying that was better, just that society worked differently. As another example, if I remember correctly when the retirement age for men was originally set at 65 life expectancy for men was only 66. And at that time far more men worked in jobs that were extremely physically demanding. I doubt the politicians who created state pensions envisioned so many people living for decades beyond retirement age.

Anyway, over the last 60 years there have been (and to some extent continue to be) a whole range of changes to the way we live and I don't think we've worked out how to run and maintain a functional society that includes this new way of living. It may even be that we can't. Because as things stand British/European/western society is failing. We aren't having enough children to maintain our population so our society is literally in decline and I don't see any obvious way to turn that around. Importing cheap labour isn't going to solve that fundamental problem and, as you seem to agree, the way we've failed to integrate people has caused real societal problems.

 

[Osvaldorama]

This is why I hate the climate crisis & woke narratives so much.

People are being taught literally to hate themselves, their country and that it’s evil to have children.

Combine this with the cost of living / inflation crisis and it’s having devastating consequences on society.

Sounds like hyperbole but it’s 100% true.

 

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This is why I hate the climate crisis & woke narratives so much.

People are being taught literally to hate themselves, their country and that it’s evil to have children.

Connie this with the cost of living / inflation crisis and it’s having devastating consequences on society.

Sounds like hyperbole but it’s 100% true.

This is a misunderstanding of falling birth rates. Birth rates fall as wealth increases - irrespective of your views on climate. Poor people have lots of kids to help survive. Richer people reduce the spread of their to wealth on one or two children. It happens in every nation as it gets richer.

 

[Puck]

This is why I hate the climate crisis & woke narratives so much.

People are being taught literally to hate themselves, their country and that it’s evil to have children.

Connie this with the cost of living / inflation crisis and it’s having devastating consequences on society.

Sounds like hyperbole but it’s 100% true.

Maybe. I used to work with someone who said she wouldn't have children because "we're all going to burn" but I'm not sure that's the real reason. I think those things are often just acceptable reasons people feel they can give to justify something.

It's like the travel surveys where everybody says they don't cycle to work because the roads aren't safe and they would if there were more cycle lanes. The reality is even if the roads were totally safe most people just don't want to, especially when it's January and it's dark, cold and raining. But of course nobody wants to admit that.

 

[Osvaldorama]

Not sure how old you are, but I’m in my early 30s and I’m still one of the first in my generation to have kids.

There just isn’t an appetite for it - in part because of the woke propaganda that people are forced to hear.

The costs of childcare for people that are working is astronomical (makes sense to claim benefits in a lot of cases)

Feminism has taught women that careers are more important than family (lie)

Young men are taught that they’re evil because of the ‘patriarchy’ (lie)

Climate crisis teaches everyone that having kids is destroying the planet (lie)

Basically the only item on the menu for the millennials and younger is nihilism. Then people wonder why birth rates are decline.

In my experience, most people that are having kids are those that are doing it accidentally.

 

[Osvaldorama]

This is a misunderstanding of falling birth rates. Birth rates fall as wealth increases - irrespective of your views on climate. Poor people have lots of kids to help survive. Richer people reduce the spread of their to wealth on one or two children. It happens in every nation as it gets richer.

Only because how society and incentives are currently set up.

In a sane society, there would be incentives for hard working young families to have more children.

Instead, we have the hard working young families subsidising absolutely everything else at the expense of their family

 

[OddRiverOakWizards]

Not sure how old you are, but I’m in my early 30s and I’m still one of the first in my generation to have kids.

There just isn’t an appetite for it - in part because of the woke propaganda that people are forced to hear.

The costs of childcare for people that are working is astronomical (makes sense to claim benefits in a lot of cases)

Feminism has taught women that careers are more important than family (lie)

Young men are taught that they’re evil because of the ‘patriarchy’ (lie)

Climate crisis teaches everyone that having kids is destroying the planet (lie)

Basically the only item on the menu for the millennials and younger is nihilism. Then people wonder why birth rates are decline.

In my experience, most people that are having kids are those that are doing it accidentally.

What nonsense. You complain about immigration etc. but the biggest driver is climate change.

A lot of people my age have not got kids because of the cost and their ability to provide for them.

You're always pro choice so surely it is up to them to decide if they want kids and it is nothing to do with woke that's just your excuse as you can't explain the trend.

Oh and Global Warming/Climate change is real unless the rules of physics are incorrect - have you ever been in a greenhouse?

 

[Lemons and Oranges]

What nonsense. You complain about immigration etc. but the biggest driver is climate change.

A lot of people my age have not got kids because of the cost and their ability to provide for them.

You're always pro choice so surely it is up to them to decide if they want kids and it is nothing to do with woke that's just your excuse as you can't explain the trend.

Oh and Global Warming/Climate change is real unless the rules of physics are incorrect - have you ever been in a greenhouse?

Yeah, but, but, it must be The Woke Agenda, because, well, because it is, ain't it?

 

[StJabbo1]

Yeah, but, but, it must be The Woke Agenda, because, well, because it is, ain't it?

It's wokey wokey very very wokey it's very wokey
It's lefty lefty very very lefty it's very lefty

 

[Osvaldorama]

What nonsense. You complain about immigration etc. but the biggest driver is climate change.

A lot of people my age have not got kids because of the cost and their ability to provide for them.

You're always pro choice so surely it is up to them to decide if they want kids and it is nothing to do with woke that's just your excuse as you can't explain the trend.

Oh and Global Warming/Climate change is real unless the rules of physics are incorrect - have you ever been in a greenhouse?

None of that is true.

The climate hasn’t changed much. The only thing that has changed is the propaganda around it.

All I am advocating for is telling young British people to be proud of who they are, instead of being told that they are a plague on the earth.

(On that note - there was 1 arrest in the Leeds riots yesterday…. An English woman was arrested for telling the police to arrest the foreign looters. Literally sums up the country. British people are now second class citizens in their own country)

 

[StJabbo1]

None of that is true.

The climate hasn’t changed much. The only thing that has changed is the propaganda around it.

All I am advocating for is telling young British people to be proud of who they are, instead of being told that they are a plague on the earth.

(On that note - there was 1 arrest in the Leeds riots yesterday…. An English woman was arrested for telling the police to arrest the foreign looters. Literally sums up the country.)

If David Attenborough and Chris Packham and the vast majority of related science says we're ****ed then we're ****ed.

None of my young family in England have been told they're a plague, They recognise the problems wrought by the last 14 years of tory incompetence and corruption are heartened by the common sense and breath of fresh air that the new government brings particularly closer ties with Europe and the end of the Rwanda debalcale.

 

[thereisonlyoneno7]

The biggest problem I feel is since 2016, bad behaviour has been normalised.

 

[shoot_spiderman]

If David Attenborough and Chris Packham and the vast majority of related science says we're ****ed then we're ****ed.

None of my young family in England have been told they're a plague, They recognise the problems wrought by the last 14 years of tory incompetence and corruption are heartened by the common sense and breath of fresh air that the new government brings particularly closer ties with Europe and the end of the Rwanda debalcale.

Stop feeding the trolls

 

[shoot_spiderman]

What nonsense. You complain about immigration etc. but the biggest driver is climate change.

A lot of people my age have not got kids because of the cost and their ability to provide for them.

You're always pro choice so surely it is up to them to decide if they want kids and it is nothing to do with woke that's just your excuse as you can't explain the trend.

Oh and Global Warming/Climate change is real unless the rules of physics are incorrect - have you ever been in a greenhouse?

Stop feeding the trolls

 

[......loading......]

None of that is true.

The climate hasn’t changed much. The only thing that has changed is the propaganda around it.

All I am advocating for is telling young British people to be proud of who they are, instead of being told that they are a plague on the earth.

(On that note - there was 1 arrest in the Leeds riots yesterday…. An English woman was arrested for telling the police to arrest the foreign looters. Literally sums up the country. British people are now second class citizens in their own country)

There is so much wrong here. It is like a Gordion knot of wrong.

The facts of climate change are all here:

https://science.nasa.gov/climate-change/evidence/

These are not opinions. They are hard facts. It takes insane levels of ignorance on a par with flat-earthism at this point to not see we are doing real damage to the Earth.

Secondly, there have been 5 arrests at least over the riots and more will take place as evidence comes in. I don’t know where you get your news, but there was no looting.

 

[Gregm1988]

There is so much wrong here. It is like a Gordion knot of wrong.

The facts of climate change are all here:

https://science.nasa.gov/climate-change/evidence/

These are not opinions. They are hard facts. It takes insane levels of ignorance on a par with flat-earthism at this point to not see we are doing real damage to the Earth.

Secondly, there have been 5 arrests at least over the riots and more will take place as evidence comes in. I don’t know where you get your news, but there was no looting.

I’m going to suggest it isn’t an actual news source given historical comments about the “mainstream media”. Probably random Twitter accounts from people with shared ideological leanings and an incentive to report misinformation.

On Climate change - it was being taught when I was in school and likely long before that. I can understand all the reasons the wealthy elite that sponsor all these right wing news sources want to deny it. I get it. Some of it even makes sense - like how it would in the short term be expensive to transition away from fossil fuels and we’d give up competitive advantage to developing countries who continue to use them. But trying to pretend it doesn’t exist? That’s just done because the real answers of “it will cost us owners of energy companies
money in the short to medium and we can’t have that so we’d pass it on to you” isn’t a winning strategy.

And then in the long term (if it works) once you have energy from renewable sources rather than finite ones. What does that do to income generation and profit? There is no incentive for private enterprise to see the success of renewable energy. It’s why it’s always these wacky right wing types who are hyper capitalist (proper late stage taking the piss kind) who deny climate change despite the science being settled and overwhelming. Funny that

 

[StJabbo1]

I’m going to suggest it isn’t an actual news source given historical comments about the “mainstream media”. Probably random Twitter accounts from people with shared ideological leanings and an incentive to report misinformation.

On Climate change - it was being taught when I was in school and likely long before that. I can understand all the reasons the wealthy elite that sponsor all these right wing news sources want to deny it. I get it. Some of it even makes sense - like how it would in the short term be expensive to transition away from fossil fuels and we’d give up competitive advantage to developing countries who continue to use them. But trying to pretend it doesn’t exist? That’s just done because the real answers of “it will cost us owners of energy companies
money in the short to medium and we can’t have that so we’d pass it on to you” isn’t a winning strategy.

And then in the long term (if it works) once you have energy from renewable sources rather than finite ones. What does that do to income generation and profit? There is no incentive for private enterprise to see the success of renewable energy. It’s why it’s always these wacky right wing types who are hyper capitalist (proper late stage taking the piss kind) who deny climate change despite the science being settled and overwhelming. Funny that

Re the Leeds 1 - your first paragraph nails it.
It's the usual shrill hysterical

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[saintrichie123]

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