Off Topic Politics Thread

In summary…

Trump seeks to follow the recommendations of Project 2025, a conservative think tank. The key aims are:

1. Replace non-partisan civil servants in the Executive with conservative supporters.

2. The rejection of transgender rights.

3. Undo work on climate change, which it believes is fake and political.

4. Reinforce the ban on abortion.

5. Bars critical race theory - stops funds from rich white areas making it into the schools in poorer areas.

6. An end to student loan relief.

7. Flat taxes for everyone under 168 thousand dollars.

8. Cutting MedicAid and denying to those out of work.

Pretty standard right wing policies.

 

Not his policies necessarily but he very much seems to be in it to avoid prosecution rather than for anything more noble. And for his own ego. Finally enrichment of his business - remember how all the secret service had to book hotels at his properties as did diplomats. And how his profile got his son in law big Middle Eastern property contracts. So not a good start. Anyone who thinks Trump is in it to improve the lives of ordinary Americans can come and speak to me about a bridge I have to sell them. He won by flipping the rust belt in 2016, did absolutely nothing to make their lives better and they flipped back. Narrowly - but it still flipped back

If he had kept any of the promises he made in his first term he would have won easily.

He also disastrously mismanaged Covid - but so did many other places

His notable policy achievement in his first term was a tax cut for the richest Americans. Those who didn’t need it. And that kind of thing is usually even more effective there than here - the “war of aspiration” critique that the right always have when the rich are given handouts that far exceed what the poor get. Because America is much more aspirational on average. The prospect of moving into the bracket to benefit is in theory far more real than in other countries. Except it isn’t in the same way it used to be

So that’s kind of addressing past policies and politics. It seems like he will oversee an expansion to abortion restrictions although he is trying to straddle the fence on that

He wants to cut migration but failed to do that in his first term. It was one of those things where people were pouring over the southern border in his presidency and then as soon as Biden took over Fox News suddenly started banging on about it every day. Like what our right wing press is trying to do now Labour has taken over and trying to deal with conservative mismanagement

And then there is the Project 2025 thing which sounds like an attempt to remove all the checks and balances in the US system and the sort of thing where if the democrats proposed the same kind of thing - mass sacking of civil servants to replace them with partisan lackeys (among other things) - the right would lose their minds and start screaming about “Big Government Overreach”

And globally his proposed foreign policy would be a disaster. Stepping away and washing your hands of conflicts leads to even more refugees and asylum seekers (which they hate). Emboldening Russia won’t be good for America in the long term. It will be worse for Europe but still not good for America. America used to understand force projection and soft power. Trump seems to be proposing to just dispense with all of that. That drives countries into the arms of others and not them. America reached its position in the world by abandoning isolationism and “America first”. And it’s arguably gone too far to row back on that now

I think the point is that his politics really don’t seem like there are intended to help ordinary Americans. Just personally enrich Trump. And he doesn’t seem to really understand geopolitics and international security. And America’s role in that. Why would he? He’s a real estate owner who has never really had to think about it

 

Point 1 alone would be met with howls of fury if the Democrats did it

I don’t really understand point 7. That sounds like Reform UK Limited politics where the sums just don’t add up and the national debt will balloon

 

Besides being a proven liar, misogynistic pussy grabbing serial adulterer, convicted felon and fraudster you can refer to his rhetoric on immigrants, trade NATO and climate change denial amongst others. Then Vance as his running mate who has the UK under Labour as an islamic nuclear power just adds to the bollocks.

 

Of course I doubt the Democrats would need to do it because I imagine the US civil service is generally more aligned with their politics anyway.

 

That is veering very close to “deep state” / “the swamp” style nonsense. The Republicans had a trifecta in the first two years of the Trump admin and did pretty much nothing. It’s much easier for them to blame this on the underlying systems than them just being incompetent. Which is closer to the truth

It’s also not a precedent anyone wants setting really because who knows where it ends. Does every new admin just fire everyone from before so there is no knowledge or experience ?

 

Have you heard of project 2025?
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c977njnvq2do

 

Why do you imagine that? And is your imagination really an accurate guide to the workings of US government and politics?

 

Yes. I can see why people - especially Europeans who tend to be more left-leaning than Americans - would oppose his policies but nothing I've seen suggests any threat to democracy.

 

He didn’t concede defeat last time and tried to put pressure on states to “find” the votes needed to flip them. And then did nothing (best case interpretation) to stop a mob that rioted when Mike Pence refused to accept false electors / overturn the election. Pretty much text book anti democratic. We don’t need to scratch our heads and wonder about what he might do - we need to look at what he as already tried as a guide

 

The last point is a very good one. The idea may well be totally impractical.

I don't think the "deep state", "swamp, "blob" stuff is entirely nonsense, although it's almost certainly overstated. If Trump or the Conservatives got into power with clear plans and ideas how to deliver them I doubt they could be stopped. But from what I've read a lot of governments are totally unprepared for the way government actually works, and that's probably the source of some of the wilder ideas. There's a slightly more sinister implication to them but at their heart I'd say the terms "deep state", "blob", "swamp" etc are really just new names for an old idea that was widely accepted for a long time. Just as it's impossible for any news organisation to be truly impartial it's also impossible for civil servants to be truly impartial.

Do you really believe all these people are blank slates with no opinions of their own? Of course they aren't. They're largely educated in the same universities, many on similar courses, so it's not surprising they generally have similar views. I don't know the American system but I know some UK civil servants (as in, people who work at national government level) and I know a lot of people who work in local government. I know what they think about various issues, I know which political party they're more sympathetic to. I remember one of them I used to work with - a woman in her mid-20s at the time - went on a Tinder date one night and told me the next day "I can't believe I got matched with a ****ing Tory boy."

Given that left-wing governments tend to favour bigger government - which means bigger civil service budgets and more staff - and given that universities are becoming more and more left wing, it would be surprising if the civil service wasn't generally left-leaning. Look at the current government. Sue Gray and Patrick Vallance were supposedly impartial civil servants not long ago and both now work in or for a Labour government. I very much doubt either had some sort of road to Damascus conversion where they suddenly became converted to left-wing thinking. And then you have the welcome Angela Rayner got from her department, that you can see below. Applause. Huge smiles on faces. Impartial? Don't make me laugh.



The idea of the civil service having an agenda isn't a new one. Yes Minister was first aired over 40 years ago for goodness sake and they say many of the episodes are almost portrayals of real events, with some added comedy. And the set up that show portrays - or something very like it - is also reflected in the diaries/books of politicians like Rory Stewart or Richard Crossman. I suppose you could include things Dominic Cummings has said as well. Hell, I've seen Thomas Sowell talk about his experiences working in the US government in the early 1960s and how the civil service were more concerned with maintaining their departmental budgets than helping people, and I've seen the same things to differing extents in my own career.

 

See above. I know people who work in the British civil service. They're all left-wing politically and hostile to the Tory party. I know people who work in local government. They're generally even more left-wing. I see former senior civil servants working for the Labour government. I read books by politicians (of all parties) who describe the way the British civil service works. I imagine it's the same in America.

Or perhaps you think the US civil service favours Trump's world view?

 

I've been over this before. None of this is relevant. He can't do that again because if he wins this time he isn't allowed to run in 2028, unless he amends the constitution. And he won't be able to do that.

So what is the threat? Unless you think he's going to successfully stage a military coup there isn't one.

 

The Trump appointed judiciary dismissing cases will need some deep scrutiny. I believe there are some ethical questions being asked of at least one appointee.

There's also talk of abolishing the two term rule. Trump has no principals, loyalty only to himself.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c51ydg792ggo

This is beyond incredible.

 

He’s already stated that this “project 2025” stuff is left wing conspiracy theory.

Trumps views are actually quite liberal on abortion etc.

 

https://x.com/darrengrimes_/status/1814036887843029432?s=46

Meanwhile in the UK, police in leeds are literally running away from a massive group of rioting foreign nationals.

Apparently a baby fell out of a window. Social services went to investigate and were attacked.

Glad all these people are assimilating so well into British culture

 

Except Trump is just a President and his party does indeed stand for those things. Presidents are not major players in internal policy - as can be seen by the extreme hardline anti-abortion policies of his last government.

 

Was just reading that it started off because of a 'non-accidental head injury' to a minor, for which the police took the child into their care. But then, equally, had to take the family's other children while investigations continued, which is what sparked it all off at the home address

Suppose we should really wait for the reports to be confirmed but if what's circulating is accurate, the group rioting now are from a totally different community/background to the people the initial incident involved