Off Topic General Election

[Chesh1recat]

To anyone complaining that Starmer is not being completely honest about what will happen after the election let's see what he says on Friday and does in the following 5 years.

In the meantime these should be used as the benchmark to assess his level of honesty:

Margaret Thatcher - Where there is discord, may we bring harmony. Where there is error, may we bring truth. Where there is doubt, may we bring faith. And where there is despair, may we bring hope’ … and to all the British people—howsoever they voted—may I say this. Now that the Election is over, may we get together and strive to serve and strengthen the country of which we're so proud to be a part.

Boris Johnson - And as I think I said 11 years ago to the people of London when I was elected in what was thought of as a Labour city, your hand may have quivered over the ballot paper before you put your cross in the Conservative box and you may intend to return to Labour next time round. “And if that is the case, I am humbled that you have put your trust in me, and that you have put your trust in us. And I, and we, will never take your support for granted. “And I will make it my mission to work night and day, flat out, to prove you right in voting for me this time, and to earn your support in the future. And I say to you that in this election your voice has been heard and about time too.

Nick Clegg - But I can assure you I would not have entered into this agreement unless I was genuinely convinced it was a unique opportunity to deliver the changes you and I believe in:
Fair taxes.
A fair start in life for every child.
A new approach to our discredited banking system and the prospect of green and sustainable economic growth.
And new, open politics which you can trust once again.
So I hope you will now keep faith with us let us prove to you that we can serve this country with humility, with fairness at the heart of everything we do. And with total dedication to the interests and livelihoods of everyone in this country.

PS - I'm not completely happy about Starmer, to me he's 'Tory-lite', but still a better option that any of the current alternatives.

He won't be saying anything on Friday if it's after 6 o'clock

 

[Howdentiger2]

Getting rid of the root of the problem is an actual real course of action. Remember, it was alright 15 years ago. We aren't living in a totally different world to then. But we do have a much more cruel government who prioritises syphoning off money to their mates whilst telling everyone there is none for things like healthcare.

I think you're looking back with red tinted glasses. If you think just voting out Tories will magically end it and it'll change everything.....I've got some magic beans you can buy

 

[Kalman]

I don't think there is another realistic solution, and I don't think there was a good reason to deviate from that plan when it was working pretty well.

Healthcare spending has steadily increased every year since the Tories have been in power. They’ve been crap at managing it but they’ve never decreased spending and the percent of GDP has been steady from 2010-2019 at around 10% and went up to around 12% after that due to the pandemic.

So no, just throwing money at it isn’t the solution. It’s a bogus myth that the Tories have decreased funding for the NHS compared to Labour pre-2010 and I can’t ****ing stand the Tories one bit.

 

[Cityzen]

To anyone complaining that Starmer is not being completely honest about what will happen after the election let's see what he says on Friday and does in the following 5 years.

In the meantime these should be used as the benchmark to assess his level of honesty:

Margaret Thatcher - Where there is discord, may we bring harmony. Where there is error, may we bring truth. Where there is doubt, may we bring faith. And where there is despair, may we bring hope’ … and to all the British people—howsoever they voted—may I say this. Now that the Election is over, may we get together and strive to serve and strengthen the country of which we're so proud to be a part.

Boris Johnson - And as I think I said 11 years ago to the people of London when I was elected in what was thought of as a Labour city, your hand may have quivered over the ballot paper before you put your cross in the Conservative box and you may intend to return to Labour next time round. “And if that is the case, I am humbled that you have put your trust in me, and that you have put your trust in us. And I, and we, will never take your support for granted. “And I will make it my mission to work night and day, flat out, to prove you right in voting for me this time, and to earn your support in the future. And I say to you that in this election your voice has been heard and about time too.

Nick Clegg - But I can assure you I would not have entered into this agreement unless I was genuinely convinced it was a unique opportunity to deliver the changes you and I believe in:
Fair taxes.
A fair start in life for every child.
A new approach to our discredited banking system and the prospect of green and sustainable economic growth.
And new, open politics which you can trust once again.
So I hope you will now keep faith with us let us prove to you that we can serve this country with humility, with fairness at the heart of everything we do. And with total dedication to the interests and livelihoods of everyone in this country.

PS - I'm not completely happy about Starmer, to me he's 'Tory-lite', but still a better option that any of the current alternatives.

The Guardian got wind of Brown’s plan to raid pensions, which wrecked the private pensions of millions, but he put pressure on them and they didn’t publish it, That might have has an effect on voting.

Presumably you want a far left government going by your remarks about Starmer?

 

[PLT]

they are still trainees who will receive the full consultant wage when they qualify as a consultant……

If they do. Many don't. You don't have to ever specialise and become a consultant. But one of the problems we have is that some junior doctors are so overworked that they quit before then anyway.

 

[Cityzen]

I don't think there is another realistic solution, and I don't think there was a good reason to deviate from that plan when it was working pretty well.

Spending on the NHS is at record levels in real terms.

 

[Kalman]

Absolutely. One of their ways of syphoning off money to preferred parties as I just mentioned in another post.

Really don't think that's an argument against honest healthcare spending though.

So your objection is how the NHS’ funding is spent, not how much they get? Great, I agree. Which is why I’m saying it needs reform and throwing money at it won’t solve the issues.

 

[PLT]

You think it would have been handled better under Labour? Any evidence for that other than wishful thinking? When Johnson ended lockdown Starmer said he would be responsible for deaths of 1,000s and called for it to be extended. We had, and still have doctors, refusing to see people face to face, palming you off on to clinicians via telephone calls. During the covid outbreak in France doctors carried on seeing patients face to face unlike our much vaunted health service. BTW, nurses in France get paid less than they do here.

I think the average government would have dealt with it far better, because what Johnson and friends did was unforgivably bad. They used it as an opportunity for gain, they ignored their scientific advisors and continually didn't take it seriously enough. Labour would've done better, even a typical Tory government would've done better than that utterly reprehensible one did.

 

[Charon]

Fact check - 12000 more doctors than in 2010 and 120, 000 more nurses - I appreciate this doesn't quite fit the narrative and the lies about underfunding but it is a fact

 

[SW3 Chelsea Tiger]

If they do. Many don't. You don't have to ever specialise and become a consultant. But one of the problems we have is that some junior doctors are so overworked that they quit before then anyway.

Vast majority of hospital doctors became a consultant eventually.
Yea they do have to specialise. Thats what FY 1-6 is all about
Some drop out to become GPs but guess what….they have to re start their training all over again.

stick to talking what you know about…………

 

[PLT]

So your objection is how the NHS’ funding is spent, not how much they get? Great, I agree. Which is why I’m saying it needs reform and throwing money at it won’t solve the issues.

I think that's obviously disingenuous. Government giving contracts to their mates via the VIP lane whilst ignoring reputable providers like ARCO is obviously entirely unrelated to how NHS funding affects things like the conditions of junior doctors and nurses, which is where the problems are.

 

[Ric Glasgow]

Spending on the NHS is at record levels in real terms.

Yep...

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[Mckechnie Orange]

Yep...

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Doesn't the headline spend need to be correlated with the increase in population, particularly aging demographics in order to present a true picture?

Btw I don't think labour gets a free pass on the NHS. Use of PFI's as a short term fix have produced a legacy of their own.

 

[oldman]

The Guardian got wind of Brown’s plan to raid pensions, which wrecked the private pensions of millions, but he put pressure on them and they didn’t publish it, That might have has an effect on voting.

Presumably you want a far left government going by your remarks about Starmer?

Further left than him yes but not far left, as I intimated there's a lot of room to go left of Starmer...

 

[oldman]

He won't be saying anything on Friday if it's after 6 o'clock

 

[Heimdallr]

Fact check - 12000 more doctors than in 2010 and 120, 000 more nurses - I appreciate this doesn't quite fit the narrative and the lies about underfunding but it is a fact

You might be right, Charon, i don't know enough about the NHS anymore, but there are around 3 million more pensioners in the UK now than in 2010 and the population is 6-8 million more (this last figure is an estimate, which is mental in itself)..

 

[Cityzen]

I think the average government would have dealt with it far better, because what Johnson and friends did was unforgivably bad. They used it as an opportunity for gain, they ignored their scientific advisors and continually didn't take it seriously enough. Labour would've done better, even a typical Tory government would've done better than that utterly reprehensible one did.

So, a longer lockdown and paying a lot of people to sit at home would have been better? The fact the scientific advisors were not correct in their predictions either.

 

[Charon]

You might be right, Charon, i don't know enough about the NHS anymore, but there are around 3 million more pensioners in the UK now than in 2010 and the population is 6-8 million more (this last figure is an estimate, which is mental in itself)..

Agreed - at least people live longer under a Tory Govt

 

[Evington]

No. People who don’t know anything about politics shouldn’t be forced to vote.

I’m not saying there should be a bar of knowledge about politics - as I think many of us wouldn’t make it, including me. But I’d much prefer people to still feel like they are making the decision to vote - rather than feel like they have to and the country have to deal with the decision they make because of that emotion.

There has to be more education about living in a democracy and the responsibilities associated with voting.

 

[Howdentiger2]

So, a longer lockdown and paying a lot of people to sit at home would have been better? The fact the scientific advisors were not correct in their predictions either.

I wouldn't bother, he's so red he's unable to have actual debate about things. Blue bad,red good. He's another, like starmer who just uses the benefit of hindsight to play the blame game and "I'd of done it better" line