And they keep shouting at the golf when it should be a nice calm sport. Don't forget that one. Always riles me anyway. "IN THE HOLE" STFU you morons.
So, you disagree that the EDF marching around with their English flags out was just as bad as people throwing a few statues in the river? I find that strange as they are both extreme viewpoints.
Both as bad. I'm agreeing with you. I am talking about how that would be presented by the media or by politicos. The latter would be given a pretty sympathetic if not "whats the problem" stance and the former would be attacked with full force. EDF (or whatever Robinson is calling his lot these days) marching with his "Londanistan" banner is as bad as the pro palestine marchers and their subtle "death to the Jews" placards......and to apoint I guess it proves your point because without the police / politicians (mayor) allowing the palestine one and virtually ignoring the, more than a isolated few, of the palestine "peaceful march" with "In this country everybody has the right to protest" results in the latter. The reporting of each much different though. The sentiment of commentariat much much different. The Tommy Robinson one should be allowed. Ask about the various banners and placards and songs/chants at the pro palestine marches and you get "I saw nothing, all lies, deepfake from the right wing" Nothing to see here. Personally I think everybody should have the right to march...........but they should have to pay the policing and cleanup bill so we can spend our taxes somewhere else.....or get the groups that fund these narratives to pay. Or ask these people why they aren't at work like normal folks?
Intersectionality has been a thing in this instance for years. Long before a man was strapped to a jeep. Al Jazeera, Hamas’ mouthpiece wrote about it in 2017 https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/opinions/2017/4/6/zionisms-problem-with-intersectionality Similarly chanting for the Houthis, a designated terror group, for taking down British ships isn’t something you can blame on Israel I’m afraid. We will have to agree to disagree on this… no point in flogging it to death as we are clearly talking at incongruent purposes oh and by the way, SJP themselves define themselves as an anti capitalist group. They celebrate their own intersectionality, they don’t try to hide it lol
I guess we will. But if I loved Israel I would be campaigning my arse off to stop empowering Hamas with violence and then students will stop getting upset about the deaths of innocents.
Lol I think if you loved Israel you’d see it all through a very different lens so it’s a complete non sequitur. But that’s fine… different opinions lead to good, healthy debate.
There are people who love Israel who also see it my way. I think more hostages could have been saved for less money if Israel had appealed to the moderate arab states for help. I think thousands of people who are not to blame have been killed to save hundreds. I think that is blood on Israel's hands when Israel were originally the victims. Worst, I don't think Israel's actions have made Israel safer. They got their revenge though. Eye for an eye, right?
Try telling that to the 80,000 Israelis who have been evacuated from northern Israel since 7/10 because of constant hezbollah strikes. Israelis are used to feeling unsafe. You have the lovely luxury of not being directly involved or knowing anybody killed or kidnapped and I really genuinely envy that. What a lovely position of privilege. Just accept that many different people have different views and yours are no more worthy than somebody else’s. No need to get petty and sardonic.
I am not being petty. I fervently believe Israel have got this all wrong. You cannot explain how this has made Israelis safer. You cannot tell me how many Palestinians one Israeli is worth. You cannot tell me Hamas did not want Israel to do exactly what it did.
Hmm…I sort of agree, but one thing people seem to miss within this discussion is that the Arab states aren’t terribly keen on Palestine themselves. You’ll not see too many pro-Palestinian protests going on in the other Arab states…
Egypt’s response was to build a wall to dwarf that on Israel’s side. Speaks volumes. They’ve seen what has happened in Jordan, Lebanon and Syria and want absolutely nothing to do with that.
I don't disagree with that. But Palestine is a good way for antisemites to pat each other on the back and point out Israeli cruelty and how right nations like Iran and Saudi are to hate the Jews. Why give them ammunition? It just defies belief that anyone thinks putting ammo in your enemy's gun is the way to start a fight.
And that’s absolutely fine and lovely that you think that whilst sitting back with no family or friends impacted. If Israel had sat back and done nothing, they’d have enjoyed a few days of international sympathy while hezobllah continued to fire 1000s of rockets per day and Hamas plotted their next holocaust. As Golda Meir said, “if we have to choose between being dead and pitied, and being alive with a bad image, we’d rather be alive and have the bad image.” Does that mean I agree with the Israeli government? Am I dense enough to ignore people who disagree? No. And I have skin in the game and an encyclopaedia of knowledge and first hand experience of the region. You have none of those yet still put forward your opinion as arrogant fact. It’s nuanced and difficult, not simple and clear cut.
Why is it when people can find no counter argument, they simply say it is complicated and nuanced and you are arrogant? Hamas knew how Israel would react. Israel did what Hamas wanted. I don't call that a good move.
Of course the knew what Israel would do, that's why they did it, it's a funding drive so the leaders can continue living the high life elsewhere.
Because anybody who knows the region knows it’s nuanced and anyone pretending it isn’t, is reductive and ill informed. Plenty of counter arguments above that you seem to have missed.
I don’t think anyone is denying that. But it is also true that doing nothing was also not an option. Certainly doesn’t mean they’ve made good choices in how they’ve prosecuted the war, but also doing nothing was not an option. You just don’t have that luxury when you’re surrounded by countries sworn to your destruction.
Ok, for me. 1. Explain why this military offensive was a wise move. What has it gained that diplomacy could not? 2. If it was your child's school that Hamas harboured weapons in, would you feel the same about the validity of the bombings? 3. If a war achieves the goals your enemy wants it to, is it a success? 4. Why is Israel safer now than it was before all this bloodshed?
Nobody is claiming "doing nothing" was an option. But killing the people who were put there for Israel to kill to empower Israel's enemies was surely not a wise choice!
