Off Topic The SIR Kenny Dalglish Public House

[InBiscanWeTrust]

I'm against the vaccine, you've probably seen the accusations that it has caused ongoing health problems and that it's linked to heart conditions and clots. I've seen an unusual amount of people within my family and friends and local area be affected by this and we are talking about younger people here.
I wish I hadn't taken the initial vaccine but we were scared into it. I haven't had one since and have had COVID 3 or 4 times.

It may well be worth taking if you are vulnerable, I don't know. There's certainly a higher risk from COVID if you are older or have a medical condition.

I think covid is fair enough. I think at the time there was a lot of fear about it - and rightly so for some people. As you say the elderly and vulnerable can cause serious issues. For the majority of people it did turn out to just be a bit of a heavy cold / flu type thing.

I can understand since why people who are generally healthy wouldn't take a top up. I had 2, would I get another? Prob not now tbh but more just because it didn’t really affect me and I feel I’ve prob got am enough naturlw
immunity (unless was clear was a new strain that was causing major issues for people).

I can understand it on covid - but things like the HPV vaccine, measles, the people that don’t get those are the ones I have problems with.

 

[luvgonzo]

I think covid is fair enough. I think at the time there was a lot of fear about it - and rightly so for some people. As you say the elderly and vulnerable can cause serious issues. For the majority of people it did turn out to just be a bit of a heavy cold / flu type thing.

I can understand since why people who are generally healthy wouldn't take a top up. I had 2, would I get another? Prob not now tbh but more just because it didn’t really affect me and I feel I’ve prob got am enough naturlw
immunity (unless was clear was a new strain that was causing major issues for people).

I can understand it on covid - but things like the HPV vaccine, measles, the people that don’t get those are the ones I have problems with.

Yes, to be clear I'm not anti vaccines, just the COVID one.

 

[InBiscanWeTrust]

Yes, to be clear I'm not anti vaccines, just the COVID one.

Yeah wouldnt say that makes anyone a conspiracy nut at all (unless they are against covid cos they think bill gates is trying to control them by using it).

 

[luvgonzo]

Yeah wouldnt say that makes anyone a conspiracy nut at all (unless they are against covid cos they think bill gates is trying to control them by using it).

It does to some though, suggest that it COULD be responsible for illness and some people go nuts as if they know that it doesn't.

 

[THE FOOL]

I love a conspiracy theory.

They can be incredibly entertaining.

However, the best thing about them is they can make you think, just have a little question of things you would usually take for granted.

Now, I havnt the time or energy to question every aspect of life, I generally close my eyes and hope things are going to turn out OK.

But its good to inquire every now and again, is what you believe actually true? Keeps you open minded.

 

[saintanton]

Yeah wouldnt say that makes anyone a conspiracy nut at all (unless they are against covid cos they think bill gates is trying to control them by using it).

I read one that said the vaccine contained a nano-chip (or some such) that was going to lock down everyone's bank account so we'd all have to do as we're told or starve.
I think these people watch too much cheap dystopian sci-fi.
10/10 for imagination, 0/10 for grip on reality.

 

[saintanton]

I think covid is fair enough. I think at the time there was a lot of fear about it - and rightly so for some people. As you say the elderly and vulnerable can cause serious issues. For the majority of people it did turn out to just be a bit of a heavy cold / flu type thing.

I can understand since why people who are generally healthy wouldn't take a top up. I had 2, would I get another? Prob not now tbh but more just because it didn’t really affect me and I feel I’ve prob got am enough naturlw
immunity (unless was clear was a new strain that was causing major issues for people).

I can understand it on covid - but things like the HPV vaccine, measles, the people that don’t get those are the ones I have problems with.

I've had 3 vaccines, but haven't bothered with subsequent ones (I get offered flu vaccines as well, but I don't bother). As I outlined earlier though, the first attack was really bad.
My singing voice took two years to recover, though most people apparently saw that as an unexpected bonus.

On vaccines in general, the smallpox one was the greatest success - a particularly horrible disease that killed millions, completely eradicated by vaccine programmes.

 

[saintanton]

I love a conspiracy theory.

They can be incredibly entertaining.

However, the best thing about them is they can make you think, just have a little question of things you would usually take for granted.

Now, I havnt the time or energy to question every aspect of life, I generally close my eyes and hope things are going to turn out OK.

But its good to inquire every now and again, is what you believe actually true? Keeps you open minded.

Have you seen the ones about the recent eclipse? Magnificent stuff.
They are funny sometimes, but it does disturb me that so many people have such a poor grasp on reality. In an age where almost all knowledge is at your fingertips, some are still stuck in primitive ignorance and superstition.

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

Yes, to be clear I'm not anti vaccines, just the COVID one.

why are you anit covid as a matte rof interest?

The type of tech?
The forcing people at the time?
The fact its not really needed for most people?
Other?

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

I think covid is fair enough. I think at the time there was a lot of fear about it - and rightly so for some people. As you say the elderly and vulnerable can cause serious issues. For the majority of people it did turn out to just be a bit of a heavy cold / flu type thing.

I can understand since why people who are generally healthy wouldn't take a top up. I had 2, would I get another? Prob not now tbh but more just because it didn’t really affect me and I feel I’ve prob got am enough naturlw
immunity (unless was clear was a new strain that was causing major issues for people).

I can understand it on covid - but things like the HPV vaccine, measles, the people that don’t get those are the ones I have problems with.

just a note on flu and covid.

I doubt many peopel have actually ever had a real flu. I truely beleive most people have just had a heavy cold and would never say its just flu.

Just IMO.

the 1919 flu killed millions.

covid did kill millions.

most of us didn't really need a vaccine but we all took it to keep/get health services back into some running order. Now covid is "normal" and absorbed into all the other seasonal diseases that we all have to get on with.

there will be more flu like diseases over time. the older you get the more risk you have so its usually a lottery of will i bother but if you do get a flu and end up in hospital at an older age you'll have an awful time to try recover anywhere near you were.

I got the 3 covid and no more. It was neither appropriate nor cost effective for getitng more and now that bears out as doctors will only give it out if required

The examples made of djokovic was hilarious. It was his choice but it just showed how stupid things get these days

 

[luvgonzo]

why are you anit covid as a matte rof interest?

The type of tech?
The forcing people at the time?
The fact its not really needed for most people?
Other?

I believe it's causing health issues, heart issues, clots and general lung problems.

 

[organic red]

I believe it's causing health issues, heart issues, clots and general lung problems.

Biggest thing for me was the fact it was untested,or untested for the length of time these things usually are.

I didn't go near it at all.

 

[Milk..]

Re Vaccines... People have been doing them for a thousand years. Ancient techniques for pox involved ingesting dried pox scabs or rubbing them.under your eyes, etc. (essentially same idea as a vaccine without knowing how they worked).

That, or, keeping a few cows. If people had the means they would keep a few cows (not knowing that exposure to the benign cow pox virus which many times would be asymptomatic) would prevent you getting small pox. Essentially though you were giving oneself a weak form of the virus to strengthen your immunity against the full virus. The cows WERE your vaccine.

(It's also why milkmaids in medieval stories were always the beautiful maidens... Milk maids never got pox so had clearer skin than most of the population)

 

[Milk..]

most of us didn't really need a vaccine but we all took it to keep/get health services back into some running order. Now covid is "normal" and absorbed into all the other seasonal diseases that we all have to get on with.

Two points. Even those not at risk were advised to get vaccinated because a lot of people at risk CAN'T be vaccinated.

You weren't just being vaccinated for you. You were being vaccinated for the 80 or 90 year olds who you could asymptomatically spread the disease to.

The vaccines saved millions of lives, maybe indirectly hundreds of millions. I saw the data first hand where I work. Those who were dying were unvaccinated (the few who were vaccinated were just at heightened risk due to other preexisting conditions). But millions of people DIDNT get COVID because other people took the vaccine so didn't get sick and didn't spread it to them.

Second point is COVID is normal now because, like most viruses it has become less virulent. (Evolution favours viruses that don't kill their hosts). That said, there is no doubt the virus going around is not the virus that took over the world. People seem to be poo-poo COVID as nothing now, forgetting the early days when people were dying because the world didn't have enough ventilators to keep up.


There were other dangers too. Early research showed that COVID might cross the barrier into central nervous system. Think chicken pox that goes dormant, hidden from immune system and then returns as shingles. That is suspected not to happen now, but if it had been true, COVID could have been far more deadly than early numbers suggested (with people dying decades after catching it)... I think it's still not entirely ruled out that in a few cases early on with the more virulent forms but certainly not happening now.


We're not completely safe now. COVID crossed many species and there are lots of corona viruses out there that if an infected animal has and gets COVID at the same time there could be gene recombination between the two viruses that could pop up even deadlier than before. The fact that we weren't able to completely eradicate COVID because we weren't able to vaccinate enough people soon enough/and or control the virus means we've left a door open for future pandemics.

Vaccinated people could get reduced symptoms of a would-be pandemic virus (recombined with an animal corona virus) and prevent it from even getting a foothold. Be impossible to tell or measure, but the vaccine could have prevent a second, third, fourth, follow-up potentially worsepandemic from ever happening.

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

I believe it's causing health issues, heart issues, clots and general lung problems.

Could be in small number of cases, yes.

little of column a little of column b decision now. Before not so much.

I don't feel the need to get a covid vaccines at this point for my age so until i do i dont nee dot take the risk. As the risk fomr covid gets higher by my age and recvoery then I'll have a different decision.

A 20 year old shouldnt even be asked about it now imo.

 

[Milk..]

Could be in small number of cases, yes.

little of column a little of column b decision now. Before not so much.

I don't feel the need to get a covid vaccines at this point for my age so until i do i dont nee dot take the risk. As the risk fomr covid gets higher by my age and recvoery then I'll have a different decision.

A 20 year old shouldnt even be asked about it now imo.

I'm required to get one (or jump through a thousand hoops not to) but even if I weren't I would because I have elderly parents. If there were no old people in my life, and I wasn't required to, I probably wouldn't get one now either.

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

Two points. Even those not at risk were advised to get vaccinated because a lot of people at risk CAN'T be vaccinated.

You weren't just being vaccinated for you. You were being vaccinated for the 80 or 90 year olds who you could asymptomatically spread the disease to.

The vaccines saved millions of lives, maybe indirectly hundreds of millions. I saw the data first hand where I work. Those who were dying were unvaccinated (the few who were vaccinated were just at heightened risk due to other preexisting conditions). But millions of people DIDNT get COVID because other people took the vaccine so didn't get sick and didn't spread it to them.

Second point is COVID is normal now because, like most viruses it has become less virulent. (Evolution favours viruses that don't kill their hosts). That said, there is no doubt the virus going around is not the virus that took over the world. People seem to be poo-poo COVID as nothing now, forgetting the early days when people were dying because the world didn't have enough ventilators to keep up.


There were other dangers too. Early research showed that COVID might cross the barrier into central nervous system. Think chicken pox that goes dormant, hidden from immune system and then returns as shingles. That is suspected not to happen now, but if it had been true, COVID could have been far more deadly than early numbers suggested (with people dying decades after catching it)... I think it's still not entirely ruled out that in a few cases early on with the more virulent forms but certainly not happening now.


We're not completely safe now. COVID crossed many species and there are lots of corona viruses out there that if an infected animal has and gets COVID at the same time there could be gene recombination between the two viruses that could pop up even deadlier than before. The fact that we weren't able to completely eradicate COVID because we weren't able to vaccinate enough people soon enough/and or control the virus means we've left a door open for future pandemics.

Vaccinated people could get reduced symptoms of a would-be pandemic virus (recombined with an animal corona virus) and prevent it from even getting a foothold. Be impossible to tell or measure, but the vaccine could have prevent a second, third, fourth, follow-up potentially worsepandemic from ever happening.

Well that's true if i had it. The vaccines do exactly what you said but in reality before covid i could give h1n1 to my parents for example but wouldn't cos i'd be careful.

100% those at risk need to get vaccinted. They cannot expect the government sof the world or every other person to vaccinate at thier own expense as well really.

We got 3 vaccines to help the aged. no issue. They are now on annual boosters so the rest of us are not keeping that up at our expense.

I totally agree on the ealry days. it was carnage in certain cities and poulations.

As i said covid is not a pandemic. its is not endemic like all the other corna type viruses and flus. zero covid was a stupid policy by some politicians based on looking good. We bought time til the vacinnes. thats the reality. now we have them its just one more i nthe long list of reasons hopistals are full of sick people.

We have to build more hospitals to cope thats all. no amount of vaccines will kill it off as its too adaptable.

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

I'm required to get one (or jump through a thousand hoops not to) but even if I weren't I would because I have elderly parents. If there were no old people in my life, and I wasn't required to, I probably wouldn't get one now either.

thats your job.

Your eldery parents have to get one and it then depend on thier immune systems so only you know what thats like but like i said nobody can expect everyone else to go do the same vaccines and fill psizers pockets at their own expense when they don't need to.

My situation is i have an eldery parent but they don't need that level of protection, just thier own vaccine booster and thats that.

 

[Zanjinho]

I like reading about conspiracy theories as they are usually so insane that I find it interesting how people justify them. The danger is you then find one that interests you and start reading, there's so much information that it seems plausible. Unless you challenge and investigate the so called facts you get sucked in.

On saying that I'm completely against the COVID vaccination because of what I've read and unfortunately seen around me. So to some I'm a conspiracy nut.

Same as you mate. Most are crazy but some (few) I align with such as avoiding the vaccine. I wouldn't consider myself a conspiracy but others would when it comes to said vaccines; just not for me, I refuse to put any vaccines in my body without evidential benefit (not just COVID)

What do people consider to be conspiracies too? I think it often gets labelled as such when it's a minority view.

For example, I've never believed what we've been told about Madeleine Mccann, did that make me a believer of a conspiracy? I think most agree that's dodgy as **** so it doesn't usually get labelled a conspiracy.

 

[Milk..]

Your eldery parents have to get one and it then depend on thier immune systems so only you know what thats like but like i said nobody can expect everyone else to go do the same vaccines and fill psizers pockets at their own expense when they don't need to.

My situation is i have an eldery parent but they don't need that level of protection, just thier own vaccine booster and thats that.

Well people, especially the elderly, can still get very sick and die from COVID even if vaccinated, even today. The best way to stay safe from COVID, better than vaccination is to not get it in the first place. (Although they do get vaccinated too... Even managed to get my mother to who has always been afraid of needles)

They're less likely to catch it in the first place (from me or my family) if I am vaccinated.

With COVID being asymptomatic or low symptoms in some healthy people, it makes it hard to know.you have it. (I also get flu vaccine... Again, required but probably would anyway because of my parents). My father has reduced lung capacity so is it high risk if he caught a respiratory disease.