Carroll

[Chappaz]

What sort of things? Threats? Some things are simple. I work with contracts daily, and if somebody tried telling me that I had to sign one that I completely did not want to sign, a contract I would be 'gutted' about if I did sign, and had no reason to sign it whatsoever; there is nothing they could say other than threaten me with something that could do it. 22 year old young lad maybe, but that doesn't mean he has the brain of a 3 year old.
We already know that he wasn't gutted about the move at all because he was seen via fly on the wall coverage on Liverpool TV arriving and wandering round the place practically hopping with excitement, he was unmistakably happy.

So do I, but it's an entirely different environment. Carroll would have known very little (if not **** all) about transfer dealing as he's a young lad and he had never actually been a part of one before (came up through the youth system). So with hours to go before the deadline, he was in a closed room with Llambias, Ashley and Carroll's own agent who was set to make millions of pounds if Andy signed the deal.

I've had to deal with some heavy-handed sales pressure in my time but **** me. When it's off record you just don't know what was said. I mean really, who was the guy Andy had for all of his transfer and legal advice? That's right, his agent. The guy set to make millions for a couple of hours work.

Also, if Carroll did want to leave he would want to look good on both sides, what's to stop him just telling his friends he didnt want to leave to try to save face with supporters, which is exactly what Barton did (admittedly he was far more public and clever with his PR).

http://www.nufcblog.com/2011/02/01/the-text-messages-between-steve-wraith-and-andy-carroll/

And the guy I spoke to knew the story, so hey, perhaps he did? Barton is obviously a nutter though. He'd take on everyone on the planet if he could. You see a lot of players seemingly unhappy with situations at clubs, but none of them go to the lengths Barton did while he was still an employee of the club. That's a one in a million case.

Didn't we reject an initial offer of £30m from Liverpool? I still think that if Ashley and Llambias wanted Carroll to go they would have accepted that bid straight away.

I'd imagine that forcing a player out is a high-risk move, so Llambias and his agent may have accepted Carroll's stance until the sum got so high they thought "**** it, you're going".

In the words of Derek Llambias himself:

You guys don't understand how ****ing horrible we can be

 

[Tomski]

I'd imagine that forcing a player out is a high-risk move, so Llambias and his agent may have accepted Carroll's stance until the sum got so high they thought "**** it, you're going".

I don't think even Ashley and Llambias could have hoped to hold out for £35m. If they did then it was a great call, but £30m was a stupid amount as well and I believe that if they truly wanted him sold then they would have accepted that bid.

Also, if what Sky Sports was reporting on deadline day was accurate, we also rejected the £35m bid, but it was reported shortly after that Carroll had handed in a transfer request and it was because of that we accepted.

 

[skalpel]

So do I, but it's an entirely different environment. Carroll would have known very little (if not **** all) about transfer dealing as he's a young lad and he had never actually been a part of one before (came up through the youth system). So with hours to go before the deadline, he was in a closed room with Llambias, Ashley and Carroll's own agent who was set to make millions of pounds if Andy signed the deal.

I've had to deal with some heavy-handed sales pressure in my time but **** me. When it's off record you just don't know what was said. I mean really, who was the guy Andy had for all of his transfer and legal advice? That's right, his agent. The guy set to make millions for a couple of hours work.

So why was he in the closed room with hours to go? Couldn't he have just said 'No thanks, I'm happy with my contract' over the phone when they asked him to come in to discuss a move? Or did he get told to come into this room and recieve free gummy bears on transfer deadline day? He isn't that thick.

Besides that though, I still just don't buy into the idea that somebody could be so pressured into it. You're saying we just don't know what could be said off the record, but unless it was blackmail or some sort of illegal threat there can't have been anything that could stop him from simply saying No. Is his defense simply that "he is just that stupid"?

 

[Dr. Lucien Sanchez]

Who's Carroll?

 

[The Secret Ingredient]

i was wondering how long before this thread turned

 

[Mick O'Toon]

You must log in or register to see images

 

[skalpel]

 

[holystone]

Well, interesting.

I was talking to a chap who I've started working with, and he used to play lower league football, so he got into the fringe crowd of some Premier League footballers. He knows Smith, Ameobi, Sammy Ameobi, Carroll, but most of all, Carroll's brother. He says that Carroll pretty much blanks him now because, and I quote "he's turned into a dickhead", but he's still in good contact with his brother.

According to him, Carroll didn't actually want to leave. He repeatedly refused, but Llambias wanted him to go and so did his agent. Eventually, his agent said "either you sign the agreement to go, or I'll do it for you". He was pushed right into a corner.

Now this makes sense to me. His agent stood to make millions out of this sale, and in the shady world of football (especially as far as NUFC's cockney mafia are concerned) it's difficult to be held accountable. What could Carroll do short of taking his club and agent to court, in which they can just deny everything?

Carroll said that he was gutted to leave, and still is, but he admitted that the extra money has been great, which has probably softened the blow.

I know Carroll is long gone, but it does make you wonder whether it's right to boo him and assume he's just been a greedy ****. You hear stories that he wanted out, but you also hear stories that he wanted to stay, but ultimately neither of them can be held in higher regard than the other. I trust what this guy said to me, and having seen other pieces of evidence (such as the apparent texts to Steve Wraith, which are either true, or he just completely made it up), I just can't be sure enough to boo the guy or wish him all sorts of bad things.

Firstly Chappaz, you never posted on the thread put up in honour Wednesday ( Chappaz- Step forward take a bow). That's it, we're finished. LOL

Secondly, not sure ANYBODY could refuse tripling their wage for next 5 year.

Thirdly, Nolan's agent ended up doing the deal cutting out Carrolls' usual agent who is/was took him to court for his fee

 

[GDubz]

He can sack his agent and having a number of years left on his deal could have stayed if he wanted to. Would any of us stop at work if someone offered us 4 times our salary plus perks to go and do the same job elsewhere?

It was good business for NUFC and Carrol. The board say he wanted to go so they dont look like greedy ****s, Carroll says he didnt want to go so he doesnt look like a greedy ****..... the conclusion...... They are all greedy ****s.

Now thats off my chest.... The Carroll money has let us invest in the team and we have players in we would likely not have been allowed to sign if the bank was empty. I think we are a much better team than last season and have a good up and coming squad. Likes of HBA, Cabaye, Tiote and Ba..... signed for relatively low fees but in time we could expect £20m plus fees for them.... hopefully the same for likes of Marveux, Santon etc.

Carroll isnt doing well at Liverpool. If he turns out to be a flop and sold on this could be the best business move of the decade. I would take him back at a cut price. He hasnt done anything wrong in my eyes. If any of us had the opportunity to better our wages by 4 times the amount we would..... we are all; greedy ****s ;-)

 

[skalpel]

He can sack his agent and having a number of years left on his deal could have stayed if he wanted to. Would any of us stop at work if someone offered us 4 times our salary plus perks to go and do the same job elsewhere?

It was good business for NUFC and Carrol. The board say he wanted to go so they dont look like greedy ****s, Carroll says he didnt want to go so he doesnt look like a greedy ****..... the conclusion...... They are all greedy ****s.

Now thats off my chest.... The Carroll money has let us invest in the team and we have players in we would likely not have been allowed to sign if the bank was empty. I think we are a much better team than last season and have a good up and coming squad. Likes of HBA, Cabaye, Tiote and Ba..... signed for relatively low fees but in time we could expect £20m plus fees for them.... hopefully the same for likes of Marveux, Santon etc.

Carroll isnt doing well at Liverpool. If he turns out to be a flop and sold on this could be the best business move of the decade. I would take him back at a cut price. He hasnt done anything wrong in my eyes. If any of us had the opportunity to better our wages by 4 times the amount we would..... we are all; greedy ****s ;-)

Well put.

 

[Amnesiac]

The Carroll transfer again Give it up man, it's done and dusted and nothing can change that.

 

[Sports Direct Username]

Carroll thought he could get a wage increase because of all this. It backfired though when he found out the club wanted to take the money.

Everyone is a winner imo other than Liverpool and Carroll.

So pretty much just us then. Wahoo!

 

[Freddd]

Two things:

One: if Carroll didn't want to leave AND understands the process, he can't be forced. He could simply say "I'm off to the pub" and by closing time the window would have closed.

Two: Carroll is young and not all that smart. I've seen much more sophisticated people than him bullied/rushed into signing things that were completely absurd form their point of view. If Carroll had Llambias talking in one ear and his agent, who is supposed to be looking out for him, talking in his other, it wouldn't surprise me if he could be talked into signing most things.

Personally I think the truth is probably somewhere between hsi wanting out because he was greedy and being forced out by unscrupulous others. I think he he started a game of chicken expecting to end up staying at NUFC for more money and halfway through being pushed towards leaving for more money, which he was half happy about and half disappointed.

 

[MrsFeenee]

Didn't we reject an initial offer of £30m from Liverpool? I still think that if Ashley and Llambias wanted Carroll to go they would have accepted that bid straight away.

In all this thread which is full of heresay there is only one known fact and it is this (and the fact we rejected a £20m bid from Tottenham before this) - they rejected several offers for Carroll. Given that's the only thing we know for sure, the only conclusion I can take from that is that they didn't want him to go. So something happened in the last day of the transfer window to change that stance, whether it was on Carroll's side or the clubs we don't know but given their previous reluctance to sell regardless of the crazy prices being offered, I'd hazzard a guess it was on Carroll's side once he found out what personal terms he could command.

 

[Chappaz]

Two things:

One: if Carroll didn't want to leave AND understands the process, he can't be forced. He could simply say "I'm off to the pub" and by closing time the window would have closed.

Two: Carroll is young and not all that smart. I've seen much more sophisticated people than him bullied/rushed into signing things that were completely absurd form their point of view. If Carroll had Llambias talking in one ear and his agent, who is supposed to be looking out for him, talking in his other, it wouldn't surprise me if he could be talked into signing most things.

Personally I think the truth is probably somewhere between hsi wanting out because he was greedy and being forced out by unscrupulous others. I think he he started a game of chicken expecting to end up staying at NUFC for more money and halfway through being pushed towards leaving for more money, which he was half happy about and half disappointed.

That sounds fair really. I'm just thinking about whether the situation warrants him being boo'd, hated and wished badly upon. Personally, I don't believe it does. Or at least, I can't be sure enough of the facts to do it. As you've said, even smart people can be pressured into doing things they don't particularly want to do, nevermind 22 year old Carroll who, frankly, seems as dumb as pig ****.

Try having someone next to you who stands to make £2million+ if you agree to do something you don't really want to do. Let's also assume that this person isn't a friend and isn't particularly bothered about your wellbeing. Just see how much pressure and persuasion he will try to apply. Some ****ers would hold you at knifepoint for that sort of thing.

Firstly Chappaz, you never posted on the thread put up in honour Wednesday ( Chappaz- Step forward take a bow). That's it, we're finished. LOL

Secondly, not sure ANYBODY could refuse tripling their wage for next 5 year.

Thirdly, Nolan's agent ended up doing the deal cutting out Carrolls' usual agent who is/was took him to court for his fee

I didn't even see it? Link meh.

 

[Colly NUFC]

The agent works for him, not the other way round. If that story is the case then I wouldn't have him back just for being so ruddy thick.

 

[Chappaz]

The agent works for him, not the other way round.

Not a chance in hell that's the case in the real world.

Agents make their millions from big sales where they get a cut of the fee. They're ruthless and they aren't going to put their clients first at the expense of making themselves millionaires overnight.

However, you have to admit that what the agent may have said might not be too far from the truth. Carroll may have wanted to stay as it's his boyhood club and it was his dream to play here, but what would the agent have said?

Much bigger wages?
Bigger club?
Potential for CL football? (at the time, anyway)

Whilst it's all the truth, the motive may have entirely been down to the agent pocketing his few million quid instead of even giving half a **** about what Andy really wanted.

 

[Colly NUFC]

In which case sack him and get a better agent. For all the slagging that agents get its the players that choose to employ one who's out for his own interest. Jimmy Bullard does it all himself, because Jimmy is awesome.

 

[Chappaz]

In which case sack him and get a better agent. For all the slagging that agents get its the players that choose to employ one who's out for his own interest. Jimmy Bullard does it all himself, because Jimmy is awesome.

They're all out for their own interests though, and if a player doesn't know the legal side of things, he needs an agent to avoid being screwed over by the club.

Plus, I highly suspect that players don't just retain the right to sack an agent on a whim. There will be contracts.

 

[The Deluded Pablo Diego Jose Francisco]

They're all out for their own interests though, and if a player doesn't know the legal side of things, he needs an agent to avoid being screwed over by the club.

Plus, I highly suspect that players don't just retain the right to sack an agent on a whim. There will be contracts.

Or do what Milner does and uses the PFA as an 'agent'