Match Day Thread Tottenham Hotspur v Wolverhampton Wanderers

[Crackermanjack2]

I really think we need to go all out and get Toney in the summer (if he would come to us).
Having a proper focal point against these type of teams would make such a difference.
Also agree we need back up in the full back areas as well to suit Ange’s style, as it is huge part of the threat that we carry.
I hope this is the kick up the arse the team need. We do always seem to struggle against wolves and that was way before Ange arrived. They seem to have our number at the moment.
Long way to go still this season. Hopefully Porro and Udogie will be back for palace which is an absolute must win.

 

[Billy The Spur]

I suppose this is all about Ange instilling a philosophy, which will take time, but at the moment we are giving up way too many chances and are way too open, teams just sit in and frustrate, win the ball back and hit it over the top to the wings vacated by our fullbacks as quick as they can, then often find themselves in, sometimes 3 or 4 versus 2. We got away with it last week, and didn`t this week. Ange gets a free pass this season from me and I will see where we end up, but I will be expecting some signs of improvement, what with a skeleton fixture list and lots of time on the training pitch.

 

[remembercolinlee]

Cba with another project. Plus Ange isn’t sticking around for 5-6 years like Poch.

Also I don’t see it as this year is the foundation and then things will get better. Next season will likely see the return of European football and it’s almost impossible to do worse in the domestic cups than they did this season and I think this squad with his style will really struggle with the extra games.

Can't see the alternative to another project tbh.
Also think you're being harsh about the fa cup...half a squad out and we only lost to city in the last minute.
Obviously the Fulham match was poor but Ange agreed he was at fault for that.

 

[Dier Hard]

I really think we need to go all out and get Toney in the summer (if he would come to us).
Having a proper focal point against these type of teams would make such a difference.
Also agree we need back up in the full back areas as well to suit Ange’s style, as it is huge part of the threat that we carry.
I hope this is the kick up the arse the team need. We do always seem to struggle against wolves and that was way before Ange arrived. They seem to have our number at the moment.
Long way to go still this season. Hopefully Porro and Udogie will be back for palace which is an absolute must win.

Toney the player is great, Toney the guy is an ego prick and I don’t see him fitting in here. Bloke ****s on Brentford at every opportunity despite everything they’ve done for him. I think Vlahovic would be great for Ange’s system, but I’d also like to see how Veliz does in Spain, I think he could be a real gem.

 

[SarrMan]

Probably a good thing that the Chelsea game next week has been postponed!

It is hard to stay positive sometimes but I remember how far we’ve come from the last few seasons. Any kind of European football was always going to be a good season which I can’t see being an issue.

Ange has only had 8/9 months and two transfer windows. I know it looks like he has limitations but this is probably a massive learning curve for him as well. Hoping he can improve himself as well as the team.

 

[Citizen Kane.]

He’s been **** for ages

The squad is full of players who on their day look top drawer but ultimately are quite inconsistent

This is definitely becoming a worry for me. Far too many purple patch players out there all over the pitch. We've had the luxury of one of the most consistent players in the game (Kane) for so many years, but with his departure - who is left?

Richarlison, Bentancur, Kulusevski, Bissouma, Johnson and even Son are the dictionary definition of purple patch players. Even Maddison seems to be being sucked into it.

I think we have to face the painful reality that even at full strength, our starting XI just isn't as good as many think it is, but to improve on a bunch of players who are, when all is said and done, actually quite good, is really difficult and likely to cost a fortune.

 

[humanbeingincroydon]

Toney the player is great, Toney the guy is an ego prick and I don’t see him fitting in here. Bloke ****s on Brentford at every opportunity despite everything they’ve done for him. I think Vlahovic would be great for Ange’s system, but I’d also like to see how Veliz does in Spain, I think he could be a real gem.

Jonathan David is someone I've long said would be ideal for Ange's system - and given he'll have a year left on his Lille contract this summer we should be all over him

 

[Citizen Kane.]

Both goals an absolute disgrace to concede from a defensive point of view. The first was a free header and as for the second, I just don't know where to begin. Giving the ball away so tamely on the edge of their box, still with a 5 on 2 situation and the ball somehow ends up in the back of the net.

I'm rapidly losing patience with Bissouma. Massive weak link imo who has flattered to deceive outside of a decent run of half a dozen games.

Conte was wrong about a great many things but perhaps there was a good reason he essentially ignored the fact we'd even signed him.

 

[humanbeingincroydon]

Both goals and absolute disgrace to concede from a defensive point of view. The first was a free header and as for the second, I just don't know where to begin. Giving the ball away so tamely on the edge of their box, still with a 5 on 2 situation and the ball still ends up in the back of the net.

I'm rapidly losing patience with Bissouma. Massive weak link imo who has flattered to deceive outside of a decent run of half a dozen games.

Conte was wrong about a great many things but perhaps there was a good reason he essentially ignored the fact we'd even signed him.

In terms for the second, it's not the first goal we've conceded due to someone sleepwalking defensively lately, as Brentford capitalised on the exact same thing a few games back

In other words, either Vicario or Cuti need to be giving people tinnitus more often

 

[Citizen Kane.]

Toney the player is great, Toney the guy is an ego prick and I don’t see him fitting in here. Bloke ****s on Brentford at every opportunity despite everything they’ve done for him. I think Vlahovic would be great for Ange’s system, but I’d also like to see how Veliz does in Spain, I think he could be a real gem.

Toney is a lifelong Gooner so I assume if they pick up the phone, he'll move to the Emirates. He'd walk into their team too and, sadly, would be the final piece in whatever puzzle Captain Scarlett's been building for 5 years.

 

[KingHotspur]

I think we have to face the painful reality that even at full strength, our starting XI just isn't as good as many think it is, but to improve on a bunch of players who are, when all is said and done, actually quite good, is really difficult and likely to cost a fortune.

It is very difficult and tbh I can’t see how the club makes that jump which is why i’m not as optimistic as others.

My sole aim is to see the club win something, I’d crap football if it meant a trophy. Entertaining open football that results in a top 6 was good in 2006 with Martin Jol but 20 years on the club should be looking and aiming for more than that. I still don’t feel like anyone at the club is prioritising that.

 

[remembercolinlee]

It is very difficult and tbh I can’t see how the club makes that jump which is why i’m not as optimistic as others.

My sole aim is to see the club win something, I’d crap football if it meant a trophy. Entertaining open football that results in a top 6 was good in 2006 with Martin Jol but 20 years on the club should be looking and aiming for more than that. I still don’t feel like anyone at the club is prioritising that.

I get you're frustrated but 2 points and please don't think the first is a dig...

1) as someone who pays good money to go watch us, entertaining football is a must for me.

2) we had Bloke in a coat, Santini, Francis, Nuno, Conte and Jose as managers and they won us a total of 1 league Cup between them...in the most boring final imaginable.

 

[Crackermanjack2]

It’s so hard for a club like ours to actually get over the line. I know there are always exceptions like Leicester, but generally the clubs with the most money win most of the trophies. We have tried so many different ways to do it and have come so close over the last 10 years. It’s easy to forget that we have never really been a title challenging club, well since the 60’s really, and have always just been a cup team. Everything is in place for us to be really competitive but if you look rationally, we are currently 5th and our actual proper place in the league should be 6th going on transfer spend.
So we are actually not underperforming, it’s just bloody frustrating when we start the season like we did and then it falls away. I really felt like we had closed the gap to the top teams but reality has really set in the last few weeks.
I really do believe in Ange and think he needs time. It’s so easy to chop and change all the time, but it doesn’t generally help the cause long term. I think the main problem is our strong start raised our expectations higher than they would have been back last August.
We do have a lot of good players but it’s the club mentality which is still a work in progress.
I want to give Ange at least until the end of next season and enjoy the process. Generally the football has been enjoyable which is the main thing I wanted.
It’s always a **** feeling when we lose and all the other teams around us win, but hopefully we will have the opposite in a couple of weeks time.
Keep the faith!

 

[KingHotspur]

I get your frustrated but 2 points and please don't think the first is a dig...

1) as someone who pays good money to go watch us, entertaining football is a must for me.

2) we had Bloke in a coat, Santini, Francis, Nuno, Conte and Jose as managers and they won us a total of 1 league Cup between them...in the most boring final imaginable.

Yeah I get what you mean and maybe if I was going every week then I’d see what they’re trying to get to but for me it feels like it won’t lead to anything substantial as Ange won’t change his ways (his words)

I would take a boring cup final win right now, just to see Sonny lift something in Spurs colours.

Seeing the club win something would entertain me more than what I’m seeing right now.

 

[Citizen Kane.]

It is very difficult and tbh I can’t see how the club makes that jump which is why i’m not as optimistic as others.

My sole aim is to see the club win something, I’d crap football if it meant a trophy. Entertaining open football that results in a top 6 was good in 2006 with Martin Jol but 20 years on the club should be looking and aiming for more than that. I still don’t feel like anyone at the club is prioritising that.

I'm reassured by my belief that part of the jump will come with time. Whether under Ange or a different coach, we can't forget that the likes of VDV, Sarr, Udogie and Johnson are extremely young and learning all the time. As long as their development is managed well, I'm confident that the players they'll be a few years from now will be exponentially better than what they currently are.

As others have said, the drop in quality from the starting XI to the rest of the squad is alarming. Dragusin is an unknown but whereas our immediate rivals can call upon at least 3-5 squad players with barely an iota of difference to the overall quality of the team, we don't seem to have that luxury.

I'd hoped Bissouma would at the very least give it to us in midfield, but if anything he's actually a worse squad option than Hojbjerg and Skipp at the moment.

We have nothing at ST, the drop from Son to Werner is vast, at RW we have two inconsistent players. Maddison to Lo Celso is a joke. Udogie and Porro to Davies and Royal equally so.

If we are to be in four competitions next season, this issue needs to be addressed with some urgency. We still have a backlog of 8-9 senior players who haven't had a future at the club for donkeys years. They need to be moved on and upgraded.

For me, the absolute priorities are upgrading Richarlison and bringing in a CM who can actually control the game. I'm confident everything else will improve in time and apart from a long term successor to Son, the bulk of our work will need to be swapping those 8-9 squad players for better options.

 

[Crackermanjack2]

Yeah I get what you mean and maybe if I was going every week then I’d see what they’re trying to get to but for me it feels like it won’t lead to anything substantial as Ange won’t change his ways (his words)

I would take a boring cup final win right now, just to see Sonny lift something in Spurs colours.

Seeing the club win something would entertain me more than what I’m seeing right now.

I completely get how you feel, and feel the same. I just don’t think it’s that simple and this is probably the best way for us to have any chance of that happening.

 

[humanbeingincroydon]

It’s so hard for a club like ours to actually get over the line. I know there are always exceptions like Leicester, but generally the clubs with the most money win most of the trophies. We have tried so many different ways to do it and have come so close over the last 10 years. It’s easy to forget that we have never really been a title challenging club, well since the 60’s really, and have always just been a cup team. Everything is in place for us to be really competitive but if you look rationally, we are currently 5th and our actual proper place in the league should be 6th going on transfer spend.
So we are actually not underperforming, it’s just bloody frustrating when we start the season like we did and then it falls away. I really felt like we had closed the gap to the top teams but reality has really set in the last few weeks.
I really do believe in Ange and think he needs time. It’s so easy to chop and change all the time, but it doesn’t generally help the cause long term. I think the main problem is our strong start raised our expectations higher than they would have been back last August.
We do have a lot of good players but it’s the club mentality which is still a work in progress.
I want to give Ange at least until the end of next season and enjoy the process. Generally the football has been enjoyable which is the main thing I wanted.
It’s always a **** feeling when we lose and all the other teams around us win, but hopefully we will have the opposite in a couple of weeks time.
Keep the faith!

Here's the issue with people bringing up Leicester: they were a once in a lifetime freak occurrence, like Blackburn were before them, due to literally every team who could have been challenging for the league having off seasons. That is not something to base any kind of longterm strategy on, as Lille discovered in reasonably brutal fashion when going from 1st in 2021 to 10th in 2022

And this is the issue: the stars need to align in order for a team outside The Usual Suspects to get across the line, which is ultimately why Arteta ****ed it last season as Liverpool, Chelsea, Man Utd and us were all conspiring to find ways to rule ourselves out of making the title race interesting that effectively made it a 50/50 shot for them, and they bottled it harder than Newcastle did in the mid-90s. That's why we could almost taste winning the title in 2017 as the Mansourites, Chelsea, Man Utd, Liverpool and Arsenal all shat the bed that season - but Chelsea were a woodchipper that season

 

[Dier Hard]

Jonathan David is someone I've long said would be ideal for Ange's system - and given he'll have a year left on his Lille contract this summer we should be all over him

Yeah good shout on David, I like him too, another who’d be a sound fit.

 

[PowerSpurs]

There is a very high correlation between money spent on players and success with luck being able to explain the anomalies. The reason we are not winning things is almost entirely because five other clubs have been able to spend much more than us for many years. Three of them because, historically, they have been the best performing clubs in the country and the other two because of sportswashing. There is now a serious chance that those two might face harsh penalties. Also we have overtaken Arsenal on income. So in future seasons we might be the third highest spending club. This will vastly increase our chances of success.
While we are waiting to see how this pans out I would much rather see us play the Ange way than the Mourinho or Conte way since it is much more enjoyable and I don’t think it really affects our chances of success.

 

[PowerSpurs]

The reason our players are not as consistent as Man City's or Liverpool's is because they are worse on average because they cost less. This is also why our backups are substantially worse than the first team. But I think the priority should be to fix the biggest weakness in the starting X1 which is Richarlison.